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No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

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Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#81

Post by valleyer »

bena wrote: post #53
amluto wrote: post #33

I think the federal government should start using FDIC as a stick here. It could be fairly straightforward: if you want to be an FDIC member, you must offer basic banking. In particular, you must offer anyone who is legally in the US a free checking account. The terms must be more or less standardized. No arbitration clause, no limit on class-action lawsuits, no check deposit fees, no in-network ATM fees, no under-mi…

Eh. They do offer banking. But banks make their money investing your money. Also, I think "no overdraft fees" is just as wrong as overly punitive overdraft fees. If there were no overdraft fees, credit cards and small loans just wouldn't be a thing. Just overdraft your account and treat it as an interest free loan. When you overdraft, you are no longer dealing with your money. You're dealing with someone else's money…

Banks could easily simply reject overdrafts instead of allowing them while charging fees.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#82

Post by zaarn »

ac29 wrote: post #51
orangechairs wrote: post #18

To echo what others have said, cashless systems -- especially in fast food chains -- are a quick way to discriminate against a whole population of the underbanked. I was in Dos Toros (burrito chain mentioned early in the article) about a month ago, and the woman in line ahead of me didn't have a card. She got so embarrassed at the register despite having ample cash to pay for her meal. I paid for her with my card, sh…

The question to me is, why does this population exist in such great numbers? I understand not having good credit, but having access to a checking account with a debit card doesn't seem like it should be insurmountable. The last checking account I opened just took $5 to open the account (technically a "membership" fee at a credit union). No any proof of employment, income, ar assets was needed [0], and I left with a d…

I now several people that don't have the income or credit score to get the account or even able to afford the $5 deposit just like that.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#83

Post by zaarn »

I don't really understand the american need for a credit card.

In germany, I pay almost everything either in cash or via bank transfer, usually pull. I got a prepaid card a while ago, mostly to pay for american services (seriously, I only ever pay to american corporations with it). My debit card (EC card) is almost universal and directly connected to the bank account, no credit needed.

CC is barely supported, EC is a lot better in terms of coverage. Even then I usually apologize when using the card for anything below 100€ or so at my local supermarket.

I don't see much reason to go CC or EC fully, I always keep some cash in my wallet, not too much but enough to hold me over for a week. If I need more I go to the Bank's ATM and get more. Easy.

Cash-free payment would also be fairly illegal, a business must accept cash payments (though a limit of 50 coins is there, notes are unrestricted) for any purchase in person (online businesses don't have to IIRC).

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#84

Post by miohtama »

adamzochowski wrote: post #36
hartator wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you buy a prepaid debit card at a Walmart? I think it's probably fine to let the business decide whatever means of payment they want to accept.

Compare cash to the walmart card: 1) walmart charges 3% for all purchases outside of walmart 2) walmart charges 1$ for all purchses 3) walmart charges 5$ monthly maintenance fee 4) walmart charges 3$ to 5$ per deposit 5) even to check account status costs 50cents Holding cash has none of these costs. I am not surprised that there is a large contingent of society that doesn't trust cards and banks.

In European Union

1) Bank account is a right https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-pr...

2) debit and credit card fees are capped very low http://www.thetravelmagazine.net/no-credit-debit-card-fees-e...

This does not remedy privacy issues, but in general is more democratic way of doing things. Card payment cap also effectively killed cashback cards and premium credit cards that largerly favour rich.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#85

Post by RugnirViking »

rimliu wrote: post #47
electroSurveil wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel weird spending at places like this at all. Not just because of what it does to other people, but also how it modifies my own behavior. What if it had been me? I can't leave the house with just a twenty in my pocket? That's not good enough? I have to stop, wait, find my wallet, make sure it has a card with a balance on it, know what that balance is, make sure the card isn't damaged (demagnetized, scuffed chip c…

In Denmark and Sweden it is simple: you are likely to have your phone with you, and thats enough. MobilePay and Swish respectively are wildly popular solutions.

mobilepay is pretty ridiculous for a foreigner to use actually. You are required to have both a danish bank account and danish telephone number in order to use it. For this reason alone, it can never take off entirely. Until there comes a way that one can use their home account in a foreign country (with fees) like a card, then it will never reach the same levels of adoption.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#86

Post by miohtama »

ams6110 wrote: post #5

Of course you can rationalize that 3% is a reasonable cost and approximately a wash compared to the expense of dealing with cash. But if you're a small coffe house, and sell a $3.00 coffee, and are paying a typical 2.9% + $0.30 per charge, that $0.30 is ten percent of your sale. That's a huge cost. Transaction fees need to come way down for plastic to beat cash on small sales.

This is generally US issue where card system is structured to favour high worth consumers. In EU card companies cannot rip consumers or merchants.

http://www.thetravelmagazine.net/no-credit-debit-card-fees-e...

Thus, I would dare to state transaction fees are a local political issue, not universal problem. Transaction fees can come down to near zero.

More: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-2162_en.htm

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#87

Post by Nullabillity »

rimliu wrote: post #47
electroSurveil wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel weird spending at places like this at all. Not just because of what it does to other people, but also how it modifies my own behavior. What if it had been me? I can't leave the house with just a twenty in my pocket? That's not good enough? I have to stop, wait, find my wallet, make sure it has a card with a balance on it, know what that balance is, make sure the card isn't damaged (demagnetized, scuffed chip c…

In Denmark and Sweden it is simple: you are likely to have your phone with you, and thats enough. MobilePay and Swish respectively are wildly popular solutions.

Swish is (sadly) popular for p2p payments and "lemonade stand"-size "businesses", but good luck paying with it in a traditional store.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#88

Post by thesauri »

reaperducer wrote: post #23
Taniwha wrote: post #15

I travel to the US regularly, trying to use a foreign credit card there (especially to buy gas - what is my zip code?) is a real pain - unlike the rest of the western world the US is far from being able to go cashless

unlike the rest of the western world the US is far from being able to go cashless That's a good thing. As people are learning in other countries like Sweden.

What exactly are people in Sweden learning?

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#89

Post by lithos »

gringoDan wrote: post #2

I use a credit card for 95%+ of my transactions. At the same time, I'm scared of a cashless future. As the article mentions, cash transactions are one of the last vestiges of privacy that we have. A future where the US looks like China, where all of your transactions are visible, is not something I want to see. Additionally, cash is an equalizer for the unbanked/underbanked. Financial institutions take advantage of a…

You're afraid of the loss of privacy, then immediately suggest block chain as a solution to a related problem.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#90

Post by icebraining »

ddingus wrote: post #12

No cash, no sale. Privacy is a big deal to me. Plus downtime. Cash always works. Handling it is sometimes a PITA, but I must say we have a long way to go before electronic systems work well universally. Ordinary people are confused by them, and there are many janky, ultra cheapo type readers out there. For me personally, I leave my mobile unconnected to any payment system. I don't need or want that. I will and do use…

I think cash can fail: when they have no change!
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