Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

m.huffingtonpost.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 152 posts

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#111

Post by j7ake »

danielmorozoff wrote: post #39
neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

I was just in Toronto. It could also be because your buying power is significantly more than in the valley. You make more but everything (house or rent) is also more...

Everything is more in Valley compared to Toronto, including the absolute dollars you save per month. Unless you're saving $0 per month, then you benefit from the higher salary, even if adjusted for cost of living.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#112

Post by x1ph0z »

nathan_f77 wrote: post #70
neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

My wife and I really want to move to Toronto one day. I interviewed at a tech startup and got an offer for ~$60k CAD plus some equity. It was a good amount of equity, and they were pretty small. Their product and mission was really awesome, and I think I would have had a good time working there. But I wasn't going to move for that kind of money. That's 2.5 times less than an "entry-level" tech salary in SF ($120k USD…

As the others have said, they absolutely low balled you. I got a higher offer for a company in Burlington, which is ~1hr outside of Toronto as a new grad.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#113

Post by x1ph0z »

As some other users have mentioned, salaries could be higher compared to SL or NYC, but it's not like they're shit. Salaries are pretty decent, the only complaint would be the house/condo prices are kinda insane at the moment. Even with all that, Toronto and Canada in general is one of the best places to be in NA, especially if your a visible minority.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#114

Post by nailer »

klipt wrote: post #61
nailer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I know there's some clamp downs on H1-B but they don't seem huge, and most tech migration is legal.

When Trump's travel ban rolled out and people with green cards were being blocked at the border, I was terrified. Thank goodness the courts struck down that version. My wife and I aren't from any of the blocked countries, but who knows how the list could have grown at Trump's whim and current "enemy of the week".

Sure but Canada isn't on that list. How has being a migrant to the US changed for most people recently?

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#115

Post by Tsarbomb »

Bartweiss wrote: post #110
lacker wrote: post #53

Something doesn't seem right about these stats. From the article: The report by CBRE Group says Toronto added 82,100 technology-related jobs between 2012 and 2017 to beat out the San Francisco Bay Area for the spot by about 4,270 jobs. 82,000 jobs over 5 years, ok. Let's look at some other accounts of Bay Area tech jobs, for example https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/02/10/tech-job-growth-slow... : Tech’s annual job g…

These stats are bad, but it's much worse than just sloppy data gathering in the survey. See the discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17610221 You can get numbers much like HuffPo's if you compare urban San Francisco (population 800,000) to Toronto (population 3,000,000). Which is grossly misleading to begin with, but they then listed it as "Silicon Valley" in the headline and the "San Francisco Bay A…

That discussion doesn't mention that when people commonly refer to Toronto from abroad they refer to the GTA which is a population 6,300,000 or the broader Golden Horseshoe urban area which can include the other tech hub (Waterloo) which brings the number to over 9,200,000.

This just makes it all the more confusing.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#116

Post by randomdata »

c2h5oh wrote: post #17
parthdesai wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Going to through job postings and you can hit $90k/year with 3 years of experience. Of course you start at $90-$100k as a new grad in Amazon and Google.

There are very few senior developer jobs over 150k Cad, even with a lot of experience. I expect that to change as the hiring crunch continues but right now the ceiling has been slow to budge - much slower than the lower end of the spectrum, which is pressured more with average rent in Toronto going up over 15% year over year

The Hired.com annual salary report shows that while Toronto tech incomes have gone up overall in the past year, developer salaries have actually declined.

Canada has an exceptionally strong culture of pushing for workplace training, to the point that the OECD calls Canada the most educated nation, so when a career stands out as having good job prospects (which development has been billed that way for several years now) people flood into it, putting downward pressure on incomes unlike you find stateside where the social dynamics don't push people into those jobs the same way.

If you're doing something really unique perhaps there is still room for upward growth (although you're probably already well past $150k in that case), but generally it is unlikely that developer incomes will climb further at all.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#117

Post by captain_perl »

DKnoll wrote: post #43
r0fl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rates of $2000+ quoted above are for newly built condos with lots of amenities and are walking distance to lots of places filled with 20-30 year olds You are comparing apples to oranges Even in port credit you cannot rent a brand new bachelor in a new building that’s not in a basement, which has new stainless steel appliances, dishwasher, air conditioning and at least a gym or pool. I’m not knocking the idea of p…

I wasn't saying it's the same, I'm saying there are other options. For the record I don't live in a basement, I live street level in a real apt (not a sublet) in the hottest neighbourhood in Mississauga. I'm a half block from Lakeshore and 3 from the GO station. You can find similar apts in Etobicoke, which is also in Toronto.

> hottest neighbourhood in Mississauga

Mississauga ... lol.

What's funny is I remember when the downtown waterfront condos were $50,000 each and nobody wanted to buy - long walk to downtown and freezing cold in winter. How things change.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#118

Post by elevenoh »

Tsarbomb wrote: post #115
Bartweiss wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These stats are bad, but it's much worse than just sloppy data gathering in the survey. See the discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17610221 You can get numbers much like HuffPo's if you compare urban San Francisco (population 800,000) to Toronto (population 3,000,000). Which is grossly misleading to begin with, but they then listed it as "Silicon Valley" in the headline and the "San Francisco Bay A…

That discussion doesn't mention that when people commonly refer to Toronto from abroad they refer to the GTA which is a population 6,300,000 or the broader Golden Horseshoe urban area which can include the other tech hub (Waterloo) which brings the number to over 9,200,000. This just makes it all the more confusing.

It must include Waterloo..

But yes, this is unbelievably ambiguous.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#119

Post by elevenoh »

stuxnet79 wrote: post #82
AnthonyWnC wrote: post #38

Also Toronto native; was making just under 100k ~ 3 years ago in SysEng/devops role. Now working in NYC in similar role at ~ 185k (Cdn). Even with CoL (housing) of NYC, my savings is much higher. Personally I much prefer to live in Toronto but the salary is just too low.

Out of curiosity, why would you prefer living in Toronto vs NYC (setting salary aside)?

"Toronto is NYC if it was run by the Swiss."

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#120

Post by elevenoh »

Method-X wrote: post #101
dkonieczek wrote: post #18

I'm a Toronto native and have been working as a dev for the past two years. COL is extremely high compared to salaries. This is likely the biggest problem for anyone looking to move here. For example, a small 1 bedroom condo downtown will run you at least CA$2k a month. For a larger 1 bedroom or 1+den your easily looking at $2-3k in today's demanding market. Public transit is usually a hit or miss during rush hour. I…

I can definitely second Kitchener/Waterloo. Absolutely fantastic place to live!

Shhhh..

I'm trying to buy a house in Waterloo. Inventory is already staggeringly low.

Post reply on HN