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Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

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Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#91

Post by apercu »

neivin wrote: post #41
analyst74 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved from Toronto to SF last year, I think the CoL-adjusted salary is pretty close, or actually better in Toronto. This is comparing good mid-sized company in both cities. One misconception I think, is that many people moved to SV for big-N companies and comparing that with average Toronto salaries.

> I think the CoL-adjusted salary is pretty close, or actually better in Toronto. This is a common misconception, and is promoted by a lot of tech companies in Toronto. It actually frustrates me whenever someone says that the compensation in the bay vs Toronto is the same after adjusting for CoL. It's really not. You will end up with more absolute savings by working in the bay area, than you will in Toronto in a simi…

I've worked in both the Bay Area and Toronto. Salaries are significantly higher in the Bay Area even counting COL.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#92

Post by dkonieczek »

DKnoll wrote: post #28
dkonieczek wrote: post #18

I'm a Toronto native and have been working as a dev for the past two years. COL is extremely high compared to salaries. This is likely the biggest problem for anyone looking to move here. For example, a small 1 bedroom condo downtown will run you at least CA$2k a month. For a larger 1 bedroom or 1+den your easily looking at $2-3k in today's demanding market. Public transit is usually a hit or miss during rush hour. I…

You don't need to live downtown. I commute via car from Port Credit where I have an $850/mo bachelor apartment and work at Queen and Bathurst.

No one is taking account the demographic that are likely to move to Toronto.

If you have a partner or significant other, it's not worth relocating to Toronto. Tech job's salaries are already considered extremely high here, but the majority of other jobs don't come close outside a few industries such as medical. Not to mention, non-tech industries are not booming like the tech industry, so even finding a decent job is a challenge.

Therefore, the demographic of people that would even consider relocation to Toronto are singles. After I graduated college and moved downtown from Etobicoke, I have so much more free time to actually live life. That 2 hours of commuting is extremely valuable, and this is coming from someone who was born and raised in Toronto. If you're a newcomer and single living outside of downtown or at a distance from work, commuting 1 hour to work, then working for 8 hours, and finally commuting 1 hour back - that's already 10 hours gone from your day. Factor in daily tasks and you're left with very little time in the week to find friends or socialize.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#93

Post by apercu »

nathan_f77 wrote: post #70
neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

My wife and I really want to move to Toronto one day. I interviewed at a tech startup and got an offer for ~$60k CAD plus some equity. It was a good amount of equity, and they were pretty small. Their product and mission was really awesome, and I think I would have had a good time working there. But I wasn't going to move for that kind of money. That's 2.5 times less than an "entry-level" tech salary in SF ($120k USD…

I've probably hired around 50-60 tech workers in Toronto. Only entry level (degree plus a year or two of experience) were paid close to $60k. Most of my team was between $75-110k. This is four-five years ago so I imagine it's higher now.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#94

Post by ryanbrunner »

nathan_f77 wrote: post #70
neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

My wife and I really want to move to Toronto one day. I interviewed at a tech startup and got an offer for ~$60k CAD plus some equity. It was a good amount of equity, and they were pretty small. Their product and mission was really awesome, and I think I would have had a good time working there. But I wasn't going to move for that kind of money. That's 2.5 times less than an "entry-level" tech salary in SF ($120k USD…

For what it's worth, that's low enough to be near-scam level in Toronto. Someone with even a modicum of experience shouldn't have a problem getting $80-90K (still well below SF levels, but not THAT low). SUPER early stage startup (like pre-seed) might be an exception, but that's almost more of a co-founder situation.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#95

Post by apercu »

Apocryphon wrote: post #76
robbrit wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I moved from Montreal to SF a few years back and although my rent tripled, so did my income. The net result is much more savings than I would have gotten if I had stayed in Canada. If you're a saver/investor then it makes much more sense to move to the US for a little while, save up a decent sized nest egg, then move back.

One wonders how difficult is it to work remotely for a US firm while in Canada.

I did it briefly. It was fine, but made easier because I have citizenship in one country and the right to work in the other.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#96

Post by dmode »

nailer wrote: post #48
rescripting wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're being downvoted; it's not exactly the best time to be an immigrant in America. Maybe if you're not a visible minority and never leave the valley you could stick your thumbs in your ears and just cash the cheques.

Why? I know there's some clamp downs on H1-B but they don't seem huge, and most tech migration is legal.

Personally my H1 was denied by Trump administration citing some BS reason. I have been here for over 12 yrs and work in a decacorn as a PM. I am looking to move to Canada.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#97

Post by slededit »

ojbyrne wrote: post #36
wetpaws wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is not exactly perfect either.

If you're a Canadian its a choice between not being an immigrant and being an immigrant.

I moved back after 10 years. While being an immigrant sucks in ways a lot of people don't imagine - its worth it for the initial education and career boost. It will also teach you to "think like an american" which is important when the majority of capital is controlled by US persons.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#98

Post by miguelrochefort »

angerbot wrote: post #19
miguelrochefort wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know any Canadian developer with less than 5 years of experience earning $90k/year. Most developers I know with more than 5 years of experience earn less than $90k/year.

I'm at $90k with ~3 years experience (located in Toronto). Many of my colleagues are either at 90 or very close (~85) with similar experience. I've lived in Vancouver as well and have seen similar compensation.

I'm located in Montreal. Could that explain the difference?

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#99

Post by parthdesai »

apercu wrote: post #84
robbrit wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lost me at "commute via car". Toronto has a reputation for some of the worst traffic in North America. It might be cheaper to live that far away, but the cost in quality of life + hours commuting isn't worth the trade. Instead you can just go to a smaller town like Waterloo or a cheaper city like Montreal or Ottawa.

You could easily take a GO train from Port Credit to downtown. Very easily. We did it from Clarkson (the next stop West).

So you pay at the least around $300 a month to commute via GO train and then you need a car which is at the least another $500 when you factor in gas + insurance + lease. That's another $800 to your monthly expense and add commuting time to that.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#100

Post by DKnoll »

dkonieczek wrote: post #92
DKnoll wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to live downtown. I commute via car from Port Credit where I have an $850/mo bachelor apartment and work at Queen and Bathurst.

No one is taking account the demographic that are likely to move to Toronto. If you have a partner or significant other, it's not worth relocating to Toronto. Tech job's salaries are already considered extremely high here, but the majority of other jobs don't come close outside a few industries such as medical. Not to mention, non-tech industries are not booming like the tech industry, so even finding a decent job is…

For me at least, I like driving so I would probably spend 2 hours driving anyway. I listen to music or podcasts and destress before I get home. I really don't mind it.
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