Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years • Hacker News Board

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#41

Post by neivin » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:49 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #34

neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

I moved from Toronto to SF last year, I think the CoL-adjusted salary is pretty close, or actually better in Toronto. This is comparing good mid-sized company in both cities. One misconception I think, is that many people moved to SV for big-N companies and comparing that with average Toronto salaries.

> I think the CoL-adjusted salary is pretty close, or actually better in Toronto.

This is a common misconception, and is promoted by a lot of tech companies in Toronto. It actually frustrates me whenever someone says that the compensation in the bay vs Toronto is the same after adjusting for CoL.

It's really not. You will end up with more absolute savings by working in the bay area, than you will in Toronto in a similar living situation.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#42

Post by Element_ » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:49 PM UTC

There are over 350,000 Canadians living and working in Silicon Valley. Canada's total population is only ~35 million. There is good reason for this mass exodus.

The rates for tech workers in Toronto are terrible. An enterprising worker can easily triple their income by working for American companies.

The fact that this report is sourced from a real estate firm should give you a hint to the rent-seeking nature of the Canadian economy.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#43

Post by DKnoll » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

r0fl wrote: post #33

DKnoll wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to live downtown. I commute via car from Port Credit where I have an $850/mo bachelor apartment and work at Queen and Bathurst.

The rates of $2000+ quoted above are for newly built condos with lots of amenities and are walking distance to lots of places filled with 20-30 year olds You are comparing apples to oranges Even in port credit you cannot rent a brand new bachelor in a new building that’s not in a basement, which has new stainless steel appliances, dishwasher, air conditioning and at least a gym or pool. I’m not knocking the idea of p…

I wasn't saying it's the same, I'm saying there are other options. For the record I don't live in a basement, I live street level in a real apt (not a sublet) in the hottest neighbourhood in Mississauga. I'm a half block from Lakeshore and 3 from the GO station. You can find similar apts in Etobicoke, which is also in Toronto.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#44

Post by randomdata » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

jherdman wrote: post #26

neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

Or, you know, political reasons. This seems to be a motivator for myself and my peers in the Toronto scene.

Although I find salaries to be lower in Toronto than in small town Canada. Tech professionals prefer the city, so companies outside have to pay a premium to attract people. And that is before accounting for the substantially lower cost of living.

So if it's just a preference for the Canadian political climate, then Toronto still does not seem like the best bet.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#45

Post by parthdesai » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

ttt111222333 wrote: post #27

neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

There are no big companies in Toronto that have tech jobs. Google, Facebook, Airbnb, Uber, etc. don't have tech jobs in Toronto. Amazon just started adding tech jobs in Toronto in the past maybe year or two and Shopify is the only exception to this rule. If any toronto natives know of some big companies in Toronto with tech jobs please prove me wrong.

Google has very few jobs in downtown TO, though tons in KW. Square has jobs in KW.

I know Apple is hiring some JS devs in Toronto as well.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#46

Post by anxrn » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

ttt111222333 wrote: post #27

neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

There are no big companies in Toronto that have tech jobs. Google, Facebook, Airbnb, Uber, etc. don't have tech jobs in Toronto. Amazon just started adding tech jobs in Toronto in the past maybe year or two and Shopify is the only exception to this rule. If any toronto natives know of some big companies in Toronto with tech jobs please prove me wrong.

Not quite Toronto, but Google has a number of software engineering openings at Waterloo.

https://careers.google.com/jobs#t=sq&q=j&li=20&l=false&jlo=e...

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#47

Post by lsiunsuex » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

You all can send some of your tech jobs over here to Buffalo, NY. We're only about 1-2 hour drive from Toronto give or take traffic on the QEW and COL is pretty cheap IMO. When I had a house, it was 1700 sq ft for about $1100 / month mortgage. I'm in an apartment now - 1300 sq ft 3 bedroom / 2 full bath for about $1625 / month. Onsite pool, gym, dog park, attached garage - lots of nice stuff.

And plenty of skilled workers surrounded by 4 or 5 private and public colleges. And some of the best pizzerias lol...

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#48

Post by nailer » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

rescripting wrote: post #29

jherdman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, political reasons. This seems to be a motivator for myself and my peers in the Toronto scene.

Not sure why you're being downvoted; it's not exactly the best time to be an immigrant in America. Maybe if you're not a visible minority and never leave the valley you could stick your thumbs in your ears and just cash the cheques.

Why? I know there's some clamp downs on H1-B but they don't seem huge, and most tech migration is legal.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#49

Post by parthdesai » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

wetpaws wrote: post #30

rescripting wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're being downvoted; it's not exactly the best time to be an immigrant in America. Maybe if you're not a visible minority and never leave the valley you could stick your thumbs in your ears and just cash the cheques.

Canada is not exactly perfect either.

It is much much easier to immigrate to Canada than to USA.

Re: Toronto adds more tech jobs than Silicon Valley in past 5 years

#50

Post by leevlad » Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 4:53 PM UTC

ttt111222333 wrote: post #27

neivin wrote: post #24

As a Toronto native, who now lives in Silicon Valley (part of the brain drain from Waterloo), there is a reason why everyone leaves Toronto/Canada - the salaries are simply laughable when compared to the bay area. The only reason you would stay in Toronto for a job in tech is if you wanted to stay close to family, or your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse. Or, you just hate money and being at the center of the tech industr…

There are no big companies in Toronto that have tech jobs. Google, Facebook, Airbnb, Uber, etc. don't have tech jobs in Toronto. Amazon just started adding tech jobs in Toronto in the past maybe year or two and Shopify is the only exception to this rule. If any toronto natives know of some big companies in Toronto with tech jobs please prove me wrong.

Amazon has had a development office in Toronto since at least 2013.