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Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

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Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#91
post #62

It sounds to me like you might have more of a stress issue than anything else. It is hard for me to imagine someone getting a CS degree but also failing to be able to practice and get better at interview problems on basis of intellect. Don't make any rash decisions. Practice with an answer key and fix mistakes in solving mundane problems rapidly. Repeat. Struggle is overrated compared to repetition and quick correcti…

> Struggle is overrated compared to repetition and quick correction.

Just to offer a differing view, I would posit the exact opposite: struggle is underrated compared to repetition and quick correction. The latter is prone to blind memorization, and in my experience, many CS interview questions have a core idea or central motif that aren't apparent until after a long thought.

I don't think that either of struggle or rapid repetition are "wrong", but rather, everyone should experiment with both styles and find some middle ground between the two.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#92
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I said "pay reasonably well". It seems to me that most places that don't interview and filter candidates by asking algorithmic problems don't pay as well as those that do. That's just been my experience as a student that's interviewed for internships and is going to start interviewing for new grad positions in the fall. Also > (They do exist, even if they're not as common as they should be.) I'm curious wh…

At one of my companies we pay SF/BayArea market salaries and the way we hire (pretty much everyone, not just programmers) is: 1) short (10-20 min) phone interview, 2) if it seems like a good candidate we invite them for a paid test run, usually 2 weeks of actual real work, either remotely or in person, 3) if it works out, they get hired. Pretty much nothing will accurately predict how well someone is going to do on t…

I'm sure this is effective, but are folks really willing to agree to this? Do you pay for the 2 weeks of work? Do candidates ever say no to this arrangement?

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#93
Yeah really don't sell yourself short. And you always get better with time because patterns repeat. If people do those problems faster it's just because they are using prior knowledge from problems they have solved before. That being said if you don't enjoy programming I believe that there are a lot of other options out there. I think that there is quite a demand for people who are technical but have soft skills as well. Perhaps in the business realm. Think someone who can be a middle man between customers wants and developers.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#94
> Easy problems take me 2-5 hours. I experience PTSD like symptoms

This is not ridiculously uncommon. I had this problem for awhile too. The only thing that got me through it was applying to every possible place and getting more practice. I know that may not be what you want to hear, I know you've probably already practiced a ton and I know you've probably already applied to a ton of places.

But seriously, practice. Apply everywhere without an expectation of a job immediately. Time yourself and if you can't figure out the problems, it's okay to look. It's fine. At a certain point you'll have just seen the problems before or a variant of them and you'll be able to do them.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#95
You might try to become a recruiter / head hunter. Good ones have CS / tech knowledge which helps them place and filter candidates properly. Helps facilitate a cathartic relationship with the companies that are hiring.

Good luck with your career, whatever you decide!

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#96
My advice is don’t give up quite yet. I had a drum line coach who was also a biology professor. One day he told us that when we practice we needed to have proper technique and take the practice deliberately. He said otherwise we would be doing ourselves a disservice, and that we would effectively be undoing part of what we’ve done.

He then told a story of one of his biology students. He said that one of his students came to him after failing a test, and said he studied for many hours before the test and was asking for his score to be improved. My drum line coach then said he told the student that he wouldn’t raise the grade, but instead in my own opinion decided to teach him a valuable life lesson. He said to the student you need to be studying smart and not hard. He then told our drum line that we need to do the same with our practices.

I bring up this story not to say you’re not working hard. I believe you have met that criteria. Maybe though you are not doing things as efficiently as you would be able to if you had the right resources.

Also, with all that said in my opinion a lot of day to day software engineering is different than competitive programming like interview questions. I wouldn’t be too stressed not being good at the interview questions, because it’s so different. I also wouldn't be stressed that you don't enjoy it. Although since it’s a good idea to have a job you may need to meet these somewhat odd demands of getting a software job.

I took a class that was primarily focused on solving problems like these, and I had at least one classmate that was discouraged because he felt not much progress was being made solving random problems. Well if you solve enough of these problems you soon seem to find out that a lot of them are very similar. A lot of them fit into just a few relatively small categories. That’s why it may be easier to see the categories as well as solve random problems. That way you can be picky about which problems you solve and choose to strengthen your skills on problems you have less experience with (another principle I learned from a music teacher).

There is one book that does this really well. It is “The Competitive Programmer’s Handbook” [0]. The only gripe I have with this book is I wish it had example problems to go along with the theoretical aspect of each of the categories. Also I would recommend the "Cracking the Coding Interview" HackerRank challenges [1] which are written and compiled by Gayle Laakmann McDowell (who is the author of the book with the same title as the course.) I recommend watching the videos that go along with each section.

Also just a tip for interviews it’s very good to think out loud and converse with your interviewer. Also remember they are not just testing your ability to answer problems, but also testing how well you would fit within their existing teams (personality wise and such), and they’re testing how you cope with failure. So try and destress before an interview, and try being humble and kind (in my opinion that’s a good thing for teams of software developers to do).

Hopefully you find this helpful, and take this as you will. You honestly have the best knowledge of where you are at in handling this.

[0]: https://cses.fi/book/index.html

[1]: https://www.hackerrank.com/domains/tutorials/cracking-the-co...

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#97
Op is currently stressed and also possibly burned out. I suspect he lost his enthusiasm for the field, if he's anything like myself it's only temporary and he just needs a break. If he's given assessments and he thinks their simple and he completes them, the fact is he stated himself he completed them. I suspect his enthusiasm is missing from this choice right now because he needs to explorer his industry more.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#98
Seeing as you were able to graduate I'd imagine your issue is not performance/anxiety related but rather efficient application of learned knowledge. This resolves with hours upon hours of gruelling development practice. I'm 21 years into self-taught programming and can testify that it's the constant struggle that develops your chops (fresh grads are often terrible developers).

Now if that doesn't sound like a path you want to go down but you still like programming (even if you don't want to be the one doing the dev work) I'd recommend picking up an MBA or some other administration based masters degree. Seeing as you have respect for the difficulty of programming and have the theoretical knowledge you could be a really fantastic manager and potentially at some point an executive over developers.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#99

My advice is don’t give up quite yet. I had a drum line coach who was also a biology professor. One day he told us that when we practice we needed to have proper technique and take the practice deliberately. He said otherwise we would be doing ourselves a disservice, and that we would effectively be undoing part of what we’ve done. He then told a story of one of his biology students. He said that one of his students…

Also, advice that my Dad (a professor in Information Systems) always gave me is that it's more important to get your foot in the door and just get a decent software developer role than go for a job with a high salary or terrific benefits.
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