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The Masculine Mystique of T

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Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#51

Post by eesmith »

wycs wrote: post #35
woodruffw wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Substitute "genius" with "scientific racist" and "facts" with "unsubstantiated claims about race and sex," and you've got the rest right. Not everybody is interested in racist/anti-semetic canards[1][2] and claims about gay viruses[3]. [1]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/the-son-also-rises... [2]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/04/08/live-not-by-lies/ [3]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/dep…

Yes, I find those are extremely shocking and offensive.

Do you consider them to be true? Because I don't.

If not, which "facts that are taboo to acknowledge" are you referring to?

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#52

Post by mdomans »

atomical wrote: post #39
mdomans wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That to some degree is driven by how taboo TRT (fuelled by steroid craze of the `80s) was. In effect there were seriously hundreds of men forced to live for example on Clomid because testosterone was a no-no (compared to TRT Clomid is like using propofol because you can't sleep)

Clomid works for some but not all. http://www.ergo-log.com/clomid-testosterone.html http://www.ergo-log.com/clomidendur.html

The main point of Clomid are quite usual psychological side-effects, including such fun stuff as suicidal thoughts.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#53

Post by eesmith »

wycs wrote: post #41
woodruffw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, more importantly, just plain incorrect. We praise people for speaking truth to power, not for twisting the truth to fit a reactionary worldview.

We should praise people for speaking truth. Power has nothing to do with it. Cognitive genomics will confirm or disconfirm all the really shocking and offensive stuff very shortly. I have my priors and you have yours. We will see how it pans out. In general we should do our best not to be offended by descriptive claims and hypotheses, as reality is not constrained by ideology, though we may pretend it is.

5+6 = 11. Where's my praise? 9-5=4. I deserve more praise.

The cashier told me my bill was $4.33, just like it said on the display. I praised him for speaking truth.

Sarcasm aside, woodruffw's emphasis was on "truth", with the clear statement that Cochrane is not expressing truths but is making "unsubstantiated claims about race and sex" which are "just plain incorrect".

You earlier write that these are "facts that are taboo to acknowledge". If they are "facts", then why do we have to wait to "confirm or disconfirm all the really shocking and offensive stuff"? Shouldn't we have the facts already?

If we have to wait for confirmation then that's an hypothesis.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#54

Post by oceanghost »

balfirevic wrote: post #50
oceanghost wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just turned 40 a few days ago, and after a bad divorce decided to pull my body out of the shitter again. Dealing with a divorce on tren+pose+t is, awful. But the results are hard to argue with. I go to the gym 6 days a week, I lift all the things I'm supposed to, and the weight comes off, and the muscles grow. I've lost a shirt size in 8 weeks; my biceps don't fit in my shirts anymore. In 6 months I'll be unrecogni…

> and that medical science has proven diets don't work because obesity is primarily a hormonal problem or a reaction to stress Wait, when did that happen?

A comma would have made that sentence much better, my apologies. The clinical data on long-term weight loss is miserable. The fact is that almost everyone gains weight back (as high as 95% of patients after 5 years), and something like 60% gain more weight back than they started.

I went on to speculate that most people who are obese have an underlying condition.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#55

Post by mdomans »

oceanghost wrote: post #49
tranchms wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m with you. It’s been a struggle to reconcile life on it and off it. For six years I pinned. EW or EOD or ED. I got tired of it. It was consuming, and I felt like an addict. Testosterone is a carnal experience. I got tired of the mood swings. I felt amazing but, unstable. Certain things were not stable. My relationships specifically. I’m off it now, and I have to say, life is not as colorful, not as intense, not as…

I just turned 40 a few days ago, and after a bad divorce decided to pull my body out of the shitter again. Dealing with a divorce on tren+pose+t is, awful. But the results are hard to argue with. I go to the gym 6 days a week, I lift all the things I'm supposed to, and the weight comes off, and the muscles grow. I've lost a shirt size in 8 weeks; my biceps don't fit in my shirts anymore. In 6 months I'll be unrecogni…

If I may chime in: trenbolone and boldenone will hit your psyche hard.

Here's a short on pro bodybuilders. Most of them know jack shit about endocrine system. I'm sorry, but I work in this business. I've seen pros with IFBB pro card having their "pupils" on 100iu insulin daily. It's pure stupid. And I don't blame your doc because adrenal insufficiency is moot, there's a ton of good evidence on that. I've also seen one idiot with IFBB pro being wheeled into ER because he was doing cocaine while on juice and decided to fix with muscle cramps by giving himself IV with potassium. Put together hyperkalemia and cocaine and you're in for a V-fib.

I've also seen pro bodybuilders suggesting other stupid things. Some work, some not, main difference is that when you get "diagnosed" by a pro bodybuilder he's responsible for nothing :)

To my point: diet and exercise do work. Your adrenal insufficiency was probably effed up cortisol curve (lack of sleep? stress? caffeine hard all day?) but it's not adrenal insufficiency. Adrenal insuffiency is a SERIOUS clinically recognized condition called Addison's diseases and it's symptoms are rather obvious.

Low T as for a bodybuilder usually means anything below 400ng/dl. Not 100% healthy and certainly not the best for gym (600ng/dl-800ng/dl range is best), but your doc ins't responsible what's legal in US.

My advise would be, if you feel bad on low T, remain on testosterone alone. The main problem with boldenone is CV load (elevated hematocrit) and trenbolone REALLY damages psyche and kidneys. It messes up serotonin metabolism HARD. You can check any respected AAS guru and he will tell you that a month on Trenbolone is ALL that should be done and that's for pros only.

I do get that you want fast effects, but it's not worth it. Any bodybuilder I know who used to run trenbolone long term has huge psychological problems, with few ending in the funny town.

In short: if you need to do it, drop trenbolone and boldenone, switch yourself to nandrolone, monitor your BP and hematocrit (you can ask your doc for telmisartan) and limit yourself to something like 400mg of testosterone a week. You will just live longer and better.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#56

Post by mdomans »

oceanghost wrote: post #54
balfirevic wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and that medical science has proven diets don't work because obesity is primarily a hormonal problem or a reaction to stress Wait, when did that happen?

A comma would have made that sentence much better, my apologies. The clinical data on long-term weight loss is miserable. The fact is that almost everyone gains weight back (as high as 95% of patients after 5 years), and something like 60% gain more weight back than they started. I went on to speculate that most people who are obese have an underlying condition.

They usually have underlying psychological condition which they fail to address. Note that all the "regain" studies were done in cohorts that had either severe problems or lacked proper professional assistance (which these days you can get online for 100USD).

The fact that you can loose weight is simple physics. The fact that these people often have endocrine issues is near tautology because adipose tissue HAS endocrine activity and thus ones changes hormonal profile if in excess. Usual set of changes include: insulin resistance, lower testosterone, low thyroid hormones, leptin resistance, higher SHBG and usually higher estrogen.

Doesn't mean dieting won't work but if someone is long-term overweight he needs more work than just a difference in bodyweight.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#57

Post by mdomans »

oceanghost wrote: post #34
tranchms wrote: post #21

Not to be critical, but I find this article to be uncompelling. I began working out when I was 13. After college post 2010 I experimented with Testosterone, from 200mg a week to 600mg a week. It’s a whole underground culture. My own experiences were exactly like the stereotype— increased libido, increased muscle mass, increase strength, increase mood swings. The sex drive is palpable. It’s ferocoiously potent, increa…

This. I have done many a cycle in my life, and of things far stronger than test. I hate that I only feel like the person I want to be on cycle. It speaks to the fragility and impermanence of the mind that a simple injection can make you a completely different person. If you've never had your mind altered, you cannot understand how fragile your self-identity is.

This is pure honesty and wanting to help. People who feel better on cycle usually a) in fact do need TRT and b) should consider professional counsel in regard to their psychological help. Testosterone is very potent antidepressant - if you only feel good on T it means you only feel good on antidepressants. This information with the context you mentioned (trenbolone which has net negative effect on serotonin metabolism in the brain) suggests you should visit a doc and talk about SSRIs. Seriously.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#58

Post by atomical »

mdomans wrote: post #52
atomical wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clomid works for some but not all. http://www.ergo-log.com/clomid-testosterone.html http://www.ergo-log.com/clomidendur.html

The main point of Clomid are quite usual psychological side-effects, including such fun stuff as suicidal thoughts.

Where have you seen that in the literature?

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#59

Post by mdomans »

atomical wrote: post #58
mdomans wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main point of Clomid are quite usual psychological side-effects, including such fun stuff as suicidal thoughts.

Where have you seen that in the literature?

Honestly, I have to dig through. The thing is those things are often underreported. I worked with a TRT clinic for a while, people on Clomid for fertility reasons were miserable (as in "kill me now") so that's my bias.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#60

Post by mdomans »

atomical wrote: post #58
mdomans wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main point of Clomid are quite usual psychological side-effects, including such fun stuff as suicidal thoughts.

Where have you seen that in the literature?

Here's the best compilation of data (not mine, but by a man I incredibly respect for his insights in neuropsychopharmacology) https://www.quora.com/Can-clomiphene-citrate-trigger-depress...
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