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The Masculine Mystique of T

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Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#31

Post by mdomans »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #19
stanfordkid wrote: post #2

Intriguing why someone would try to analyze a biological compound through a cultural / political / sociological lens without at least giving some reference to actual scientific research. I have no clue whether anything in this article is true or false. Only that people might have used Testosterone to justify male dominance. Not saying it is false, but like what is the evidence? I just see vague anecdotes and personal…

> Intriguing why someone would try to analyze a biological compound through a cultural / political / sociological lens without at least giving some reference to actual scientific research. I don't think it's all that strange, given the situation. Testosterone appears to be a cultural and even economic phenomenon irrespective of its actual effects. There's a whole franchise chain of doctor's offices branded as "Low T…

That to some degree is driven by how taboo TRT (fuelled by steroid craze of the `80s) was. In effect there were seriously hundreds of men forced to live for example on Clomid because testosterone was a no-no (compared to TRT Clomid is like using propofol because you can't sleep)

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#32

Post by mdomans »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #18

The article hints that the effects of testosterone may be placebo, but at least physical muscle-wise, I’ve always found this study fascinating. Summary of the study - guys who took excessive amounts of testosterone who sat on the couch build 3x the muscle of men who worked out naturally with weights consistently. https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/steroids-vs-natural/

In regard to this study I'd like to point one thing. Therapeutic dose of testosterone enanthate (that can be prescribed legally) is nowhere near 600mg a week. Highest I heard of is 200mg. That will put average man above normal levels. 600mg is insanely high (3-4 times maximum test level) but the risk goes linear with the dose. At that level they have to be monitored pretty in-depth (BP, hematocrit, electrolytes, kidney function, lipid profile and probably psychiatric evaluation every 6-8 months. I know a lof of BB who ended up on SSRIs or in funny towns)

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#33

Post by chillacy »

solarkraft wrote: post #25
ttctciyf wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever testosterone comes up, I always think of the study showing testosterone levels change in sports fans according to whether their preferred team wins or loses[1]. The interest for me is not so much in the question of testosterone and dominance, but more to do with how mere perception of events whose meaning is entirely culturally determined can mediate hormone levels in this way. Winning at football is very di…

Winning at football is exactly like winning a fight. The member of the winning tribe will feel more confident that they will be able to win the next fight/feel more dominant, which correlates well with testosterone levels in my mind.

Sometimes the winner also riots and wrecks their city. Actually a lot of the time.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#34

Post by oceanghost »

tranchms wrote: post #21

Not to be critical, but I find this article to be uncompelling. I began working out when I was 13. After college post 2010 I experimented with Testosterone, from 200mg a week to 600mg a week. It’s a whole underground culture. My own experiences were exactly like the stereotype— increased libido, increased muscle mass, increase strength, increase mood swings. The sex drive is palpable. It’s ferocoiously potent, increa…

This. I have done many a cycle in my life, and of things far stronger than test.

I hate that I only feel like the person I want to be on cycle.

It speaks to the fragility and impermanence of the mind that a simple injection can make you a completely different person.

If you've never had your mind altered, you cannot understand how fragile your self-identity is.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#35

Post by wycs »

woodruffw wrote: post #29
wycs wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cochran is a genius, but not for everyone. There are certain facts that are taboo to acknowledge, possibly for good reasons. Cochran does not abide taboos. If you keep reading his stuff, it is very likely to shock and offend you.

Substitute "genius" with "scientific racist" and "facts" with "unsubstantiated claims about race and sex," and you've got the rest right. Not everybody is interested in racist/anti-semetic canards[1][2] and claims about gay viruses[3]. [1]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/the-son-also-rises... [2]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/04/08/live-not-by-lies/ [3]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/dep…

Yes, I find those are extremely shocking and offensive.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#36

Post by solarkraft »

iguy wrote: post #4

What a strange meandering article. The author seems almost to be seeking confusion. Since she quotes Cordelia Fine approvingly, here's an amusing review from a slightly different perspective: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2017/03/20/old-t-rex/

Fun read. Just one point of disagreement:

> Fine mention a kind of cichlid fish where dominance influences gonadal events – causation (in part) goes from behavior to hormones, instead of hormones to behavior. Interesting. But is there evidence of a similar pattern in humans? No.

Yes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17582237

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#37

Post by solarkraft »

chillacy wrote: post #33
solarkraft wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winning at football is exactly like winning a fight. The member of the winning tribe will feel more confident that they will be able to win the next fight/feel more dominant, which correlates well with testosterone levels in my mind.

Sometimes the winner also riots and wrecks their city. Actually a lot of the time.

This is possibly related to testosterone levels/heightened confidence as well.

I don't see many riots, though. At least in my kind of football (soccer).

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#38

Post by woodruffw »

wycs wrote: post #35
woodruffw wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Substitute "genius" with "scientific racist" and "facts" with "unsubstantiated claims about race and sex," and you've got the rest right. Not everybody is interested in racist/anti-semetic canards[1][2] and claims about gay viruses[3]. [1]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/the-son-also-rises... [2]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/04/08/live-not-by-lies/ [3]: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/dep…

Yes, I find those are extremely shocking and offensive.

And, more importantly, just plain incorrect.

We praise people for speaking truth to power, not for twisting the truth to fit a reactionary worldview.

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#39

Post by atomical »

mdomans wrote: post #31
0xcde4c3db wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Intriguing why someone would try to analyze a biological compound through a cultural / political / sociological lens without at least giving some reference to actual scientific research. I don't think it's all that strange, given the situation. Testosterone appears to be a cultural and even economic phenomenon irrespective of its actual effects. There's a whole franchise chain of doctor's offices branded as "Low T…

That to some degree is driven by how taboo TRT (fuelled by steroid craze of the `80s) was. In effect there were seriously hundreds of men forced to live for example on Clomid because testosterone was a no-no (compared to TRT Clomid is like using propofol because you can't sleep)

Clomid works for some but not all.

http://www.ergo-log.com/clomid-testosterone.html

http://www.ergo-log.com/clomidendur.html

Re: The Masculine Mystique of T

#40

Post by iguy »

solarkraft wrote: post #36
iguy wrote: post #4

What a strange meandering article. The author seems almost to be seeking confusion. Since she quotes Cordelia Fine approvingly, here's an amusing review from a slightly different perspective: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2017/03/20/old-t-rex/

Fun read. Just one point of disagreement: > Fine mention a kind of cichlid fish where dominance influences gonadal events – causation (in part) goes from behavior to hormones, instead of hormones to behavior. Interesting. But is there evidence of a similar pattern in humans? No. Yes. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17582237

I guess his point is that fish do things which are way-out crazy by ape standards... like Nemo's family group in which the biggest one literally becomes female: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphiprioninae#Reproduction . Getting a bit horny after the footy isn't quite the same category.
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