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Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

theintercept.com

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Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#181

Post by walrus01 »

Theodores wrote: post #92
jewbacca wrote: post #60

I've always considered this bit of writing from 2006 to be Assange's (and Wikileaks') central thesis: ---- "The non linear effects of leaks on unjust systems of governance [...] The more secretive or unjust an organization is, the more leaks induce fear and paranoia in its leadership and planning coterie. This must result in minimization of efficient internal communications mechanisms (an increase in cognitive "secre…

John Young from Cryptome helped Wikileaks get started but then decided to distance himself from Assange and co. Why was this? https://www.cnet.com/news/wikileaks-estranged-co-founder-bec... Fundamentally the difference was that Wikileaks was all about making money, to pay for Assange and co to go about their special way, living life as kings in their own special world. Plenty of charities operate this way but John Yo…

My theory for this is simply maturity and age. John Young is now quite old (and was indeed of advanced age in 2005). I don't think he cares about going to cocktail parties, being known in rarefied social circles, getting laid by groupies, speaking to major news media outlets, or all of the other things that Assange engaged in before the assault allegations against him surfaced. He certainly never seems to have cared about puffing up his own ego.

John Young is a retired architect who lives a very quiet, non-public life and seems to have always wanted to keep it that way.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#182

Post by squirrelicus »

dbg31415 wrote: post #109
squirrelicus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm sample size is too low to draw conclusions. 3 vs 8 over several years? Ehh. But you're probably right for other reasons. He was a bit of an authoritarian despite talking like a cuddly bear. His relationship with the intelligence community is probably what allowed him to spy on the Trump campaign and more or less keep it on the down low for a while.

The gap between what he said and what he did was not small. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDs3CJAwI4

I'm definitely not saying Obama was an ally of whistleblowers. It seems like he was just mostly average in this realm. I mean, 8 is still more than 3, but again, that might not be his fault, whistleblowing might have just more than doubled. Hard to tell.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#183

Post by nailer »

foldr wrote: post #177
nailer wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again: the EAW was to arrest Assange for questioning .

Well yes, obviously, they would question him and then determine whether or not to charge him. The point is that they couldn't charge him without first arresting him.

And the point was they could have questioned him any time and refused to.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#184

Post by foldr »

nailer wrote: post #183
foldr wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, obviously, they would question him and then determine whether or not to charge him. The point is that they couldn't charge him without first arresting him.

And the point was they could have questioned him any time and refused to.

Yes, the prosecutor can prosecute the case as they see fit. They're not obliged to question Assange on his own terms.

From the original ruling on the EAW (p. 20):

>Here is it necessary to focus clearly on the facts of the case. Clear and specific serious allegations have been made against Mr Assange in Sweden. Attempts have been made by the Swedish prosecutor as long ago as September to interview him. He has not been interviewed. The Swedish system anticipates detention and early questioning in allegations of this type, but this has not taken place. Mr Assange is not known to have returned to Sweden since September. I have no doubt that this defendant is wanted for prosecution in Sweden. On the information before me I cannot say when or what step was taken that can fairly be described as the commencement of a prosecution. What I can say is that the boundary between suspicion and preliminary enquiries on the one hand, and prosecution on the other, has been crossed. It may be that after interrogation and further enquiries the matter will not be pursued. As Ms Ny says, a formal decision to charge is taken at a later stage in Sweden than it is here. In this jurisdiction a person can be charged with rape or sexual assault by a custody sergeant and may then wait many months before the case is discontinued. In Sweden the decision to formally charge is followed very shortly by the trial itself, if the defendant is in custody.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#185

Post by bwb »

onyva wrote: post #165

True about Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning. Not so true about Assange. And it’s not just the legality. He didn’t simply release documents, he collaborated (as far as it is understood) with another country, to undermine the governments that imposed sanctions on it for the crimes it has (still does) committed.

Agreed!!!

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#186

Post by toyg »

geofft wrote: post #151
thevardanian wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the evidence that happened?

What is the evidence that these are the accusations, or what is the evidence that the accusations are true? I obviously don't know that the accusations are true. Swedish prosecutors think they have evidence of that. That's what I was hoping a court case would decide. I think the government should treat him as innocent until proven guilty, of course, like any civilized person, but like any civilized person I also thin…

> Swedish prosecutors think they have evidence of that.

Some Swedish prosecutors, rather. The accusations were originally dropped, then picked back up by a more politically-oriented prosecutor. It was very, very iffy from the start.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#187

Post by ck2 »

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

It is very, very simple to understand the difference between Assange vs Snowden/Manning

Assange is an anarchist. He didn't use physical guns or bombs but rather selective release of information to selected parties at very selected times to cause as much damage as possible.

Snowden & Manning on the other hand loved their country so much they were horrified to learn what was being done in our name so they exposed that information in the hope that someone, anyone, could make things right and prevent it from happening again. There was no scheme otherwise to their actions.

So yeah they all dealt with exposing secrets but WHY is the very critical difference.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#188

Post by ninguem2 »

People seem to be downvoting opinions here and the discussion is all turning so pale it's hard to read. Maybe just live with the fact that there will be statements you don't agree with and perhaps post a comment explaining why, if the counterpoint has not yet been made.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#189

Post by Pica_soO »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #129
Pica_soO wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberal America is a cult now, a church and assagne was found in heresy against its highest law: You shall not rape. They know very well, to manipulate those who decide what they stand for and upon with their feelings and not on principle.

You're saying it was purely the sexual assault, and nothing to do with becoming a puppet of Putin?

If you drive somebody out into the cold and he starts to carve himself a igloo in the snowman, what was there first?

The Traitors, who shoved a good man into a hostile environment or the bad deal of someone who refused to die for principals, neither of us would risk his neck for.

If you are hunted and stateless, you are breathing thin air - and cant choosy with your allies. Ideals are not calories, ideals dont warm at night, ideals are what got you into the trap in the first place.

If you where selfless enough to throw away your social life, for ungrateful people, who wouldn't even protest for ideals, why not make a deal with the devil to at least not become a martyr?

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#190

Post by mc32 »

GW150914 wrote: post #101
blhack wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, and this is why it would have gained him so much respect in my eyes. I think it's possible to both recognize the importance of intelligence agencies, and recognize why whistleblowing should be discouraged, but at the same time recognize the patriotism required to do it anyway. Giving these people the Medal of Freedom, to me, would have been an acknowledgment of that. "Yeah, you shouldn't have done that, but y…

If I were Snowden I’d be really pissed to be in the same breath as Assange. Snowden gave up a good life to tell people about pervasive monitoring, while Asange was always a relentless self-promoter and scumbag who tried to have his cake and eat it too.

Snowden isn’t without culpability. Yes it was patritic to illuminate the spying on Americans citizens etc., but he also revealed some things which i think he should not have.

Most people were in agreement with Wikipedia leaks until they thought he hrlped a political candidate they disagreed with. If Snowden tomorrow released some information which hurts Dems, I’m convinced hidden pitchforks woul come out from hiding too. Same for Repubs

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