Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#101

Post by GW150914 » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #29

dmix wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way Obama, or any mainstream president, would have done that. He loved the intelligence agencies even more than Bush as it gave the US the same power projection without any of the dirty business being under public scrutiny. The "polite societies" way of do much of the same which was highly criticized in the prior administration. Despite the convenient optics I don't see him being any more liberal on the ma…

I know, and this is why it would have gained him so much respect in my eyes. I think it's possible to both recognize the importance of intelligence agencies, and recognize why whistleblowing should be discouraged, but at the same time recognize the patriotism required to do it anyway. Giving these people the Medal of Freedom, to me, would have been an acknowledgment of that. "Yeah, you shouldn't have done that, but y…

If I were Snowden I’d be really pissed to be in the same breath as Assange. Snowden gave up a good life to tell people about pervasive monitoring, while Asange was always a relentless self-promoter and scumbag who tried to have his cake and eat it too.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#102

Post by ljm » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:47 PM UTC

jumelles wrote: post #76

fit2rule wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t see how a moral person could stand by his decisions, honestly. I feel this way about anyone who attempts to deflect the USA from scrutiny, with regards to the war crimes it has flagrantly committed in the time that Wikileaks has become relevant. It seems that the USA can do no harm when it comes to war-fighting, and the American public remain, as ever, wilfully ignorant of the crimes being committed in thei…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism No one is saying the US doesn't have its own problems. None of that changes Russia's current behavior.

What about whataboutism?

This mindset isn't productive - these actions don't exist in a vacuum and to treat it as such pretty much absolves the other party of all guilt while the focus is on somebody else.

Hypocrisy isn't whataboutism.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#103

Post by garmaine » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

UncleEntity wrote: post #94

ibejoeb wrote: post #19

>highly unlikely that Moreno...will obtain a guarantee that the U.K. not extradite Assange to the U.S. I'm not remotely convinced that Moreno had any capability to obtain such an assurance. By what mechanism can a foreign agent nullify terms of a treaty between two unrelated states, even if the subject were an ecuadorian national?

I recall years ago (I believe it was [0]) the US gave guarantees they wouldn't prosecute under threat of the death penalty and totally reneged. Stuff like this makes it harder in the future to get cooperation from other countries because they see US guarantees as basically worthless. What's that saying... "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." [0] https://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-supreme-court/136067…

Not really an excuse because I agree with the intent of what you're saying, but the federated system of the US means that the state department or president or whatever DOESN'T have the authority to tell the state of Washington whether or not to pursue the death penalty. That would have been the Federal government promising the actions of a third party it has no control over... which is pretty bad but a little different from outright intentional fraud.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#104

Post by garmaine » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

jumelles wrote: post #71

exabrial wrote: post #57

[flagged]

> if secret constitutional abuses are happening/begin to happen Have you heard about an organization called ICE that illegally locked children inside office buildings and strip centers?

I don't like it any more than you do. But was that a constitutional abuse?

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#105

Post by smokeyj » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #23

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

There's no way Obama, or any mainstream president, would have done that. He loved the intelligence agencies even more than Bush as it gave the US the same power projection without any of the dirty business being under public scrutiny. The "polite societies" way of do much of the same which was highly criticized in the prior administration. Despite the convenient optics I don't see him being any more liberal on the ma…

> Both establishment parties are fully in support of doing the IC's bidding.

It'a almost like we have a shadow government spreading Fake News. Trump may be an idiot but a broken clock is right twice a day.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#106

Post by pvg » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #3

This is less a news story than a coat rack Greenwald uses to hang a bunch of loosely-related political arguments he wants to make: * That Ecuador under Moreno is subservient to western powers, this according in part to Correa, who ran the previous Ecuadorian administration, which was widely considered one of the most corrupt in the western hemisphere (I have no idea if Moreno's was as well). OK? None of us are equipp…

None of us are equipped to litigate the question of whether Ecuador is well-governed

False. This can be trivially derived from Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zermelo–Fraenkel_set_theory

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#107

Post by intrasight » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #29

dmix wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way Obama, or any mainstream president, would have done that. He loved the intelligence agencies even more than Bush as it gave the US the same power projection without any of the dirty business being under public scrutiny. The "polite societies" way of do much of the same which was highly criticized in the prior administration. Despite the convenient optics I don't see him being any more liberal on the ma…

I know, and this is why it would have gained him so much respect in my eyes. I think it's possible to both recognize the importance of intelligence agencies, and recognize why whistleblowing should be discouraged, but at the same time recognize the patriotism required to do it anyway. Giving these people the Medal of Freedom, to me, would have been an acknowledgment of that. "Yeah, you shouldn't have done that, but y…

Well spoken. Thanks.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#108

Post by geofft » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #92

jewbacca wrote: post #60

I've always considered this bit of writing from 2006 to be Assange's (and Wikileaks') central thesis: ---- "The non linear effects of leaks on unjust systems of governance [...] The more secretive or unjust an organization is, the more leaks induce fear and paranoia in its leadership and planning coterie. This must result in minimization of efficient internal communications mechanisms (an increase in cognitive "secre…

John Young from Cryptome helped Wikileaks get started but then decided to distance himself from Assange and co. Why was this? https://www.cnet.com/news/wikileaks-estranged-co-founder-bec... Fundamentally the difference was that Wikileaks was all about making money, to pay for Assange and co to go about their special way, living life as kings in their own special world. Plenty of charities operate this way but John Yo…

> Assange's little difficulties with women ... not everyone has a squeaky clean character

To be clear about his "little difficulties", he's been accused of intentionally breaking a condom he was using when having sex with one woman (both of them have stated that the condom broke) and continuing a sexual encounter with another person while refusing to use a condom. As the article states, he's escaped trial because he hid from Swedish authorities and they weren't able to have the case tried in a timely fashion.

I will think it's a failure of our justice system if Assange is prosecuted in the US for leaking information (especially if, as described by the article, it's by Sessions et al. as a precursor for a leaking crackdown) and not tried for the sexual assault case that he's actually been on the run from for years - because it means that anyone who's in a similar position to Assange can now get away with sexual assault, claim asylum for their political activities, and have the world ignore their "difficulties with women."

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#109

Post by dbg31415 » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:55 PM UTC

squirrelicus wrote: post #39

virtualadmin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama unfortunately prosecuted the largest amount of whistleblowers. I doubt he would have done this. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/whistleblowe...

Hmm sample size is too low to draw conclusions. 3 vs 8 over several years? Ehh. But you're probably right for other reasons. He was a bit of an authoritarian despite talking like a cuddly bear. His relationship with the intelligence community is probably what allowed him to spy on the Trump campaign and more or less keep it on the down low for a while.

The gap between what he said and what he did was not small.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDs3CJAwI4

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#110

Post by undseg » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

windowshopping wrote: post #100

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

Assange is a hero? Last I checked he was working with Russia to support the Trump campaign. Used to respect him a lot, lost all my respect for him and WikiLeaks when he got involved in trying to influence elections. That was not that site's mandate.

Can you elaborate on that? Provide sources etc. Genuinely curious