Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#131

Post by resters » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #122

GW150914 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Snowden I’d be really pissed to be in the same breath as Assange. Snowden gave up a good life to tell people about pervasive monitoring, while Asange was always a relentless self-promoter and scumbag who tried to have his cake and eat it too.

I agree, it really is a disservice for people to lump them all together. Whisleblowing is an important act and it needs to be protected. But there is more to whisleblowing then just revealing secrets. Snowden handled things better than Manning by being more focused in what was revealed and filtering things through journalists. Both of them are worlds better than Assange. Lumping them together will only help turn peop…

I'd argue that Snowden's leaks would have been better sent to Wikileaks. We've seen perhaps 5% of the information, and much of the illegal behavior is likely still going on.

The only hope that US intel agencies have to redeem themselves as working toward the interests of the people and not against them is to be totally transparent about all illegal behavior and to undergo a full audit to stop all of it.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#132

Post by nostrademons » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #85

blhack wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama was not sympathetic to these causes. That's why it would have gained him so much respect from me. I posted the quote in another reply, so sorry for repeating it, but: "I disagree with what you are saying, but will defend to the death your right to say it." This value is probably the most important to me, and it is something that I think is fundamentally American. I would have loved to see Obama exhibit it.

Can you give an example in Obama's political tenure when he had ever done anything consistent with that sentiment or that strategy? Politically, Obama's heroes are the progressives of the Wilsonian and Roosevelt era. Wilson jailed Eugene Debs for sedition, and ironically it took the era's conservative firebrand (H L Mencken) rabble-rousing about it in exactly that spirit and eventually Harding (not exactly a socialis…

H.L. Mencken wasn't really a conservative firebrand, more of an iconoclast. His position then could be likened to that of Trey Parker & Matt Stone today, i.e. shits on everything, liberal and conservative, for the lulz, and occasionally makes some very perceptive social commentary in the process.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#133

Post by foldr » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:15 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #79

donarb wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The warrant was only withdrawn because without being able to interview Assange, the investigators cannot move forward. They have also reserved the right to reopen the case should Assange return to Sweden before the statute of limitations expires in 2020. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/may/19/swedish-prosec...

He also wasn't charged with rape, he was sought for questioning. And he consistently offered the Swedish Prosecutor to answer all questions from London, which the Swedish Prosecutor declined.

>He also wasn't charged with rape

He couldn't be charged without first being arrested. That's why Sweden issued the EAW.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#134

Post by frabbit » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #31

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

Just a curiousity, is “far left” and “liberal” even related? Seems like the far left and far right are two sides to the same totalitarian coin. Liberal implies a respect for the freedom of individuals while “far left” puts the collective over the rights of the individual. The word liberal has lost its meaning. The far left (and far right) is incompatible with freedom. Cases in point: Venezuela, Cuba, the Soviet Union…

I don't think they are related.

The Left is generally in favor of socialism of some sort: common ownership of the important stuff.

The Right has two wings: fascists and the sneaky, slippery moralizers known as Liberals. Liberals are content to wring their hands about minorities while reaping the benefits of very violent, command economies which extract wealth from the poorest (including within the USA). Their obfuscation of the true nature of capitalism and relatively less appalling public statements on minorities helps to keep a lid on things. Fascism only becomes overtly necessary when capitalism is having a periodic crisis and Liberal lies are not cutting it any more.

So, in short, no, nothing to do with each other.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#135

Post by resters » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

travmatt wrote: post #55

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

I’m never going to understand the praise for Julian Assange. He may have started out with good intentions, but his turns towards Putin and subsequent actions are pretty unforgivable in my estimation. I can’t see how a moral person could stand by his decisions, honestly. I think Pussy Riot summer him up best: "But Julian Assange, he openly works with [Russia]," Nadya Tolokno told The Daily Beast in an interview Thursd…

So what does it mean for Assange to do something that favors one nation's interest over America's? Wikileaks is not meant to benefit "US interests" in the sense of pleasing US leaders.

The entire point of a transparency organization is to reveal information that helps the people of the country understand what their leaders are up to.

If it was revealed, for example, that Trump was a pedophile, the case could be made that US national interest was served by keeping it confidential and letting him carry out his presidential term without suffering (and forcing our nation to suffer) the indignity of having it revealed.

However I think it would be in the best interest of the American people for such information to be leaked so that we could decide how to handle it via the democratic process.

Secrecy has been granted to governments based on trust, and that trust has been widely violated. Assange shows us where our leaders have violated our trust. He's shown the people of other nations how their leaders have violated trust. He's not taking sides for or against any state, he's taking sides for the people of every state against corrupt leaders.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#136

Post by severine » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:17 PM UTC

Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo:

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1020727843897118723

> Interesting to see Greenwald’s continued toadying for Julian Assange here. 2/ There are several layers of irony here. Before getting to those let me say that I think it would be a big mistake for the US to try to prosecute him, mainly for precedent and 1st am reasons. But also because we have no interest in validating his martyr complex. 3/ As for the ironies, Assange didn’t seem ‘asylum’ over a threat of US prosecution. He was there to be evade prosecution for rape. The bogeyman of us prosecution was always there to provide a veneer of principle to the more mundane aim of not answering rape charges. 4/ Sweden eventually gave up on that case because they couldn’t get access to Assange. So big picture Assange already one. He leveraged his political celebrity into a get out of jail free card for rape. The other irony is that at that time, Assange hadn’t done anything the 5/ US could charge him with. It was only from his Ecuador refuge that he began actively conspiring against the US and U.K. governments, becoming some sort of tool for the Russian security services. Glenn has another story. But it was clear in 2016 and 2017 ... 6/ that while Ecuador was willing to grant him refuge (albeit from rape prosecution) they did not want him using it to plot against other governments which Ecuador obviously wants to maintain some level of good relations with 7/ As I said, it would be very ill advised for the US to try to extradite or prosecute Assange (at least on the basis of any currently known or suspected evidence). But it would be ironic because only the Trump admin (or rather its appointees) wld even try. 8/ And Assange of course did everything in his power to get Trump elected and help the white nationalities and racist xenophobe groups who were and are his biggest supporters. 9/ It’s never been clear to me whether Assange was always who he turned out to be or was simply a data anarchist radical who went down a racist/authoritarian rabbit hole because of the series of events which unfolded after Wikileaks was formed. 10/ My hunch was always the former. But it barely matters.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#137

Post by nostrademons » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:18 PM UTC

anothergoogler wrote: post #127

blhack wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama was not sympathetic to these causes. That's why it would have gained him so much respect from me. I posted the quote in another reply, so sorry for repeating it, but: "I disagree with what you are saying, but will defend to the death your right to say it." This value is probably the most important to me, and it is something that I think is fundamentally American. I would have loved to see Obama exhibit it.

Does the meaning of your comment change in any way if you replace Obama with Trump, or "a sitting president"? I don't believe in the "deep state", but I think all presidents are equally beholden to the intelligence apparatus, and none would dare provoke it.

I would assume he used Obama's name because Chelsea Manning's conviction, and Snowden & Assange's exile, all happened during Obama's presidency.

I think it's likely that Trump, Bush, and all other sitting presidents would do the same thing, but the only other prominent example we have is Reality Winner, who just pled guilty last month, hasn't really occupied the headlines, and isn't the subject of discussion here.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#138

Post by Cyphase » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:19 PM UTC

SyneRyder wrote: post #93

briandear wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a curiousity, is “far left” and “liberal” even related? Seems like the far left and far right are two sides to the same totalitarian coin. Liberal implies a respect for the freedom of individuals while “far left” puts the collective over the rights of the individual. The word liberal has lost its meaning. The far left (and far right) is incompatible with freedom. Cases in point: Venezuela, Cuba, the Soviet Union…

You might like the website The Political Compass, a quiz/self-test where authoritarian / libertarian are on a separate axis from the typical left / right of economic planning. It at least shows the lack of nuance in trying to reduce all politics to a single "left & right" dimension - and that by doing so, we ignore ways where both "sides" may actually share common views. https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Probably inspired by the World's Smallest Political Quiz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Smallest_Political_Q...

https://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#139

Post by shanghaiaway » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:19 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #23

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

There's no way Obama, or any mainstream president, would have done that. He loved the intelligence agencies even more than Bush as it gave the US the same power projection without any of the dirty business being under public scrutiny. The "polite societies" way of do much of the same which was highly criticized in the prior administration. Despite the convenient optics I don't see him being any more liberal on the ma…

Obama is a war criminal

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#140

Post by foldr » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:20 PM UTC

thevardanian wrote: post #130

geofft wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assange's little difficulties with women ... not everyone has a squeaky clean character To be clear about his "little difficulties", he's been accused of intentionally breaking a condom he was using when having sex with one woman (both of them have stated that the condom broke) and continuing a sexual encounter with another person while refusing to use a condom. As the article states, he's escaped trial because he…

What is the evidence that happened?

You can find some of the relevant evidence summarized in English in the original UK ruling on the EAW:

https://www.aklagare.se/contentassets/cc904ed99288454586d860...