Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#121

Post by JumpCrisscross » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:04 PM UTC

mkempe wrote: post #41

The lasting message will be that if, as a private person, you help people reveal State Secrets of the most powerful countries on Earth --especially including evidence of war crimes, illegal spying, and assorted abuses of power-- you will be hounded and end up a forced recluse, tortured prisoner, and dead. The widening use of drones is likely to provide evil politicians with the shortcut they generally desire. Could A…

> if, as a private person, you help people reveal State Secrets of the most powerful countries on Earth

Plenty of people are leaking all manner of things to the press every day. If you decide to accept leaks, make lots of money off it, align yourself with Russia and then fail to do any diligence on your sources or redaction of your products, you’re doing more than just leaking.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#122

Post by slg » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

GW150914 wrote: post #101

blhack wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, and this is why it would have gained him so much respect in my eyes. I think it's possible to both recognize the importance of intelligence agencies, and recognize why whistleblowing should be discouraged, but at the same time recognize the patriotism required to do it anyway. Giving these people the Medal of Freedom, to me, would have been an acknowledgment of that. "Yeah, you shouldn't have done that, but y…

If I were Snowden I’d be really pissed to be in the same breath as Assange. Snowden gave up a good life to tell people about pervasive monitoring, while Asange was always a relentless self-promoter and scumbag who tried to have his cake and eat it too.

I agree, it really is a disservice for people to lump them all together. Whisleblowing is an important act and it needs to be protected. But there is more to whisleblowing then just revealing secrets. Snowden handled things better than Manning by being more focused in what was revealed and filtering things through journalists. Both of them are worlds better than Assange. Lumping them together will only help turn people with legitimate gripes against Assange against people like Snowden and Manning.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#123

Post by s73v3r_ » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. That's what happened to Assange. WikiLeaks did some good in the past. Then he became a Russian puppet, and tool of the Trump campaign.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#124

Post by ryanlol » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

carlosrg wrote: post #53

Good. His lies about the Catalonia situation were Russia Today-tier of disinformation and fake news. It’s completely normal that an ally of Spain doesn’t want to cooperate with that.

What claims did Assange make in regards to the Catalonia situation?

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#125

Post by s73v3r_ » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #36

kev009 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a contrasting comment I am curious if you remember how you consumed information back then to i.e. develop admiration for the whistleblowers, and retain the political operative narrative that Obama was somehow sympathetic and good to these causes.

Obama was not sympathetic to these causes. That's why it would have gained him so much respect from me. I posted the quote in another reply, so sorry for repeating it, but: "I disagree with what you are saying, but will defend to the death your right to say it." This value is probably the most important to me, and it is something that I think is fundamentally American. I would have loved to see Obama exhibit it.

That quote has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation, and it's being overused to the point of making it meaningless.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#126

Post by mc32 » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #9

What I've wanted for Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning, and if Obama would have done it before leaving office, it would have earned him infinite respect: Try them, possibly even find them guilty of something, but also award them with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. What these people have done is probably illegal, but it is unquestionably about the most American, patriotic act you could commit. Sp…

Here's my take. When you see your duty as a patriot to betray what's been entrusted to you because you think it's the right thing to do, you do it with the notion that you are "taking one for the team". And you pay the price.

What you do may not be proven right within your lifetime, but if you are eventually proven right, you will have earned the respect posthumously.

I don't think we can claim being a patriot is easy or comes free. Often times you have to pay a heavy price.

Of course that's no consolation for Snowden (or Assange).

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#127

Post by anothergoogler » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #36

kev009 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a contrasting comment I am curious if you remember how you consumed information back then to i.e. develop admiration for the whistleblowers, and retain the political operative narrative that Obama was somehow sympathetic and good to these causes.

Obama was not sympathetic to these causes. That's why it would have gained him so much respect from me. I posted the quote in another reply, so sorry for repeating it, but: "I disagree with what you are saying, but will defend to the death your right to say it." This value is probably the most important to me, and it is something that I think is fundamentally American. I would have loved to see Obama exhibit it.

Does the meaning of your comment change in any way if you replace Obama with Trump, or "a sitting president"? I don't believe in the "deep state", but I think all presidents are equally beholden to the intelligence apparatus, and none would dare provoke it.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#128

Post by resters » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:10 PM UTC

scottmf wrote: post #99

res0nat0r wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Assange is going to get anything from the USA is extradited to it and charged with trading in knowingly stolen material to undermine the candidate of the 2016 election he didn't like. Based on what was in the last Mueller indictment we'll see what happens between the US and the UK.

Yeah, Assange is no hero. His communications with Trump Jr and the leaked Wikileaks chats make that clear—as well as his meetings with people like Nigel Farage and Dana Rohrabacher. Assange has had a very clear agenda for some time now.

If you were Assange and you were trying to convince Trump Jr to hand over documents to you, would you pretend to be indifferent about the outcome of the election?

Assange wants to help reveal any secret information that will help fix the many problems stemming from secrecy and corruption of governments and institutions. Every one of his actions have supported that mission.

The focus on Assange's alleged political views and his personal life are an attempt to "shoot the messenger". We should really be 99% concerned with the information that was leaked and at most 1% concerned with anything about Assange's personality.

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#129

Post by s73v3r_ » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:10 PM UTC

Pica_soO wrote: post #115

firasd wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me profoundly sad how the world (or at least my world, mostly far left, liberal, educated, etc.) has turned so hard against Julian Assange. He's a hero in every sense of the word. If this Assange guy hadn’t gone all-in on supporting Trump, Russia, & co., he would still have a broad base of support among liberal Americans—many of the same people who lobbied for Chelsea Manning’s release. Epic bad strategy on…

Liberal America is a cult now, a church and assagne was found in heresy against its highest law: You shall not rape. They know very well, to manipulate those who decide what they stand for and upon with their feelings and not on principle.

You're saying it was purely the sexual assault, and nothing to do with becoming a puppet of Putin?

Re: Ecuador will hand over Julian Assange to the UK

#130

Post by thevardanian » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #108

Theodores wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Young from Cryptome helped Wikileaks get started but then decided to distance himself from Assange and co. Why was this? https://www.cnet.com/news/wikileaks-estranged-co-founder-bec... Fundamentally the difference was that Wikileaks was all about making money, to pay for Assange and co to go about their special way, living life as kings in their own special world. Plenty of charities operate this way but John Yo…

> Assange's little difficulties with women ... not everyone has a squeaky clean character To be clear about his "little difficulties", he's been accused of intentionally breaking a condom he was using when having sex with one woman (both of them have stated that the condom broke) and continuing a sexual encounter with another person while refusing to use a condom. As the article states, he's escaped trial because he…

What is the evidence that happened?