Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity • Hacker News Board

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#31

Post by psychedictic » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

rufugee wrote: post #20

cageface wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a good friend freak out in front of me on a bad trip. Almost thirty years later he's still not the same and needs antipsychotic medication to function. This kind of thing isn't common but it can definitely happen.

It's entirely possible that LSD uncovered or accentuated an underlying flaw in your friend's psyche...

This is the common response from proponents of LSD. To them, it's never the LSD, and instead the adverse reaction must be because the person had a mind that was predisposed to some sort of mental illness.

Even if it's true that someone has some kind of latent / dormant condition that is ultimately triggered by the LSD, then the act of taking the LSD itself was the catalyst, and the person would have been far better off not ever having taken the drug.

The drug is illegal, and the argument growing up was that the "government was suppressing free thought" or whatever nonsense was being pushed, but the reality is that such a drug is dangerous and absolutely does hurt people. Whether connected to a predisposition of mental illness or not, it's not a hard connection and people should be extra cautious when considering whether to engage in such behavior.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#32

Post by psychedictic » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

tranchms wrote: post #15

cageface wrote: post #12

I am overall pro psychedelics but I have seen them harm people first hand as well. They should be treated with a lot of caution and respect. I totally understand the urge to evangelise them but keep in mind that you're taking on a lot of responsibility when you encourage people to experiment with their brain chemistry.

I hear ya. I’ve yet to see it negatively effect anyone other than a bad trip, which, seen in the right light, can be a therapeutic experience. But I know they need to be respected and understood. I also realize that some people with a family history of mental disorders like schizophrenia, would be better off staying away. Like, some people have used psychedelics, and they go crazy. But how many of those people were c…

Someone does not need to have a "family history of mental disorders" to become an acid casualty. Some people simply have a bad reaction to the chemical and there isn't a reliable way of knowing in advance how a person might react to it.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#33

Post by travmatt » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

rufugee wrote: post #20

cageface wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a good friend freak out in front of me on a bad trip. Almost thirty years later he's still not the same and needs antipsychotic medication to function. This kind of thing isn't common but it can definitely happen.

It's entirely possible that LSD uncovered or accentuated an underlying flaw in your friend's psyche...

That’s the point - there are other, slower, safer means to effect positive change on your mind that don’t run the risk of fucking up your brain from some random effect you had no way of predicting. The point is that it’s effects are powerful, which is why there is finally a revival into what exactly is happening.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#34

Post by arkades » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

rufugee wrote: post #20

cageface wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a good friend freak out in front of me on a bad trip. Almost thirty years later he's still not the same and needs antipsychotic medication to function. This kind of thing isn't common but it can definitely happen.

It's entirely possible that LSD uncovered or accentuated an underlying flaw in your friend's psyche...

I don’t understand this common response at all.

If I prescribe penicillin to a patient with a pcn allergy, the fact that I “uncovered an underlying flaw” is irrelevant. Pcn is dangerous to them and should not be prescribed to them.

This is true, in one sense or another, of the majority of adverse effects people have from medications given in therapeutic ranges. It’s basically what having an adverse effect -means-.

It doesn’t mean that medication shouldn’t be given when appropriate, but it’s not a rationale for deflecting attention from the risks of the medication.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#35

Post by tibbon » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

tranchms wrote: post #15

cageface wrote: post #12

I am overall pro psychedelics but I have seen them harm people first hand as well. They should be treated with a lot of caution and respect. I totally understand the urge to evangelise them but keep in mind that you're taking on a lot of responsibility when you encourage people to experiment with their brain chemistry.

I hear ya. I’ve yet to see it negatively effect anyone other than a bad trip, which, seen in the right light, can be a therapeutic experience. But I know they need to be respected and understood. I also realize that some people with a family history of mental disorders like schizophrenia, would be better off staying away. Like, some people have used psychedelics, and they go crazy. But how many of those people were c…

I’ve seen a friend become semi dependent and kinda disassociated from reality after multiple times a week use of various research chemical psychedelics. It seemed to bring out some underlying bipolar like condition.

Anyway; also a strong proponent, but I’ve seen the potential harm as well. On the balance it seems worthwhile for many people, and good for many people to try a little LSD at least once.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#36

Post by thatcat » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

whb07 wrote: post #6

mnm1 wrote: post #2

Current antidepressant drugs are garbage by comparison but we're stuck with them for profit and stupidity reasons. In the meantime millions who could potentially be helped suffer and die. It's truly hard to justify the current situation on this research and the government's position in letting people suffer and die from such a horrific condition as depression when there might be a solution right before our eyes. Futu…

Are we though? Most of the time people look for a pill solution to major deficiencies in their lives. The doctor isn’t strapping you down and shoving the drugs into your mouth. Just like blaming the heroine drug epidemic at pharma and doctors, it’s weird how we never look at the individual who’s taking the pills in the first place. Prior to this epidemic we had other ones to which everyone was really trying to pin th…

Sounds like your friend decided to optimize his medical recommendations based on return business and has found reasons to blame the patients as a justification for operating on business metrics. The patients are probably doing the same thing, who needs to pay a doctor to tell them to diet and excercise?

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#37

Post by tranchms » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #35

tranchms wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear ya. I’ve yet to see it negatively effect anyone other than a bad trip, which, seen in the right light, can be a therapeutic experience. But I know they need to be respected and understood. I also realize that some people with a family history of mental disorders like schizophrenia, would be better off staying away. Like, some people have used psychedelics, and they go crazy. But how many of those people were c…

I’ve seen a friend become semi dependent and kinda disassociated from reality after multiple times a week use of various research chemical psychedelics. It seemed to bring out some underlying bipolar like condition. Anyway; also a strong proponent, but I’ve seen the potential harm as well. On the balance it seems worthwhile for many people, and good for many people to try a little LSD at least once.

Research chemicals are dangerous.

They’re mostly all synthetics derived from amphetamine class of drugs like MDMA.

2CE. 2CB. 2CI. Etc. and countless others. No one taking them know what it truly is.

They are dangerous. And more ubiquitous than LSD-25.

You can never be sure what you’re getting. You can OD and have a psychotic episode.

I do not classify them as therapeutic psychedelics, and always advise against.

If you ever take a tab of LSD and it’s bitter or metallic, or anything but absolutely flavorless or just paper, do not take. Spit it out.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#38

Post by adrice727 » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

everdev wrote: post #5

For those that haven't tried psychedelics but are curious about them in a personal growth / non-recreational way, on the Joe Rogan podcast I heard a good metaphor along these lines: Imagine your brain as a snowy hill. Each decision you make is like sledding down the hill, causing a slight indentation in the snow. The more times you make a decision, the deeper the groove, the faster you make the decision and the harde…

This was from the Michael Pollen episode.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#39

Post by tranchms » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

psychedictic wrote: post #32

tranchms wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear ya. I’ve yet to see it negatively effect anyone other than a bad trip, which, seen in the right light, can be a therapeutic experience. But I know they need to be respected and understood. I also realize that some people with a family history of mental disorders like schizophrenia, would be better off staying away. Like, some people have used psychedelics, and they go crazy. But how many of those people were c…

Someone does not need to have a "family history of mental disorders" to become an acid casualty. Some people simply have a bad reaction to the chemical and there isn't a reliable way of knowing in advance how a person might react to it.

How do they know if what they’ve taken is actually LSD-25, and not some research chemical?

Research chemicals pawned off as LSD is more common than ever. They are dangerous psychotic inducing deugs.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#40

Post by allthenews » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

I am excited to see more positive coverage of psychedelics. But every time threads like these pop up, there are people who claim to know people who came away from a trip with some kind of psychosis/anxiety disorder. I haven't reviewed the literature in some years; can anyone recommend any modern sources which document rates of poor outcomes post trip? I feel like, while odds are in one's favor, these drugs can be a coin toss, I'd like a better feel for the odds.