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Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

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Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#101

Post by einarfd »

smileysteve wrote: post #95
einarfd wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a runner I want shoes to get more efficient and better. What is about todays running shoe that makes them acceptable, and that anything better is some form of cheating? I don't agree with what they did in swimming, those body suits where amazing, and that they got banned was really sad. But even if you agree with banning them. Shoes in running are a not comparable to full body swimming suits. Shoes are an central…

> Shoes are an central part of running, the swimming suit is not that in swimming A Speedo vs a Short is a very big difference in swimming. Shaving body hair is a thing males at the high school level are doing.

I wasn't arguing that there isn't significant drag in water, and to be able to win swimming competitions you need to care about that to. But I have a hard time accepting that swimming shorts, is to swimming as shoes are to running.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#102

Post by GatorD42 »

The aggressive opinion on regulating these shoes seems over the top to me, the next best shoes, the relatively unheralded Nike Streak, provided a 3% performance improvement, and more runners achieved a personal best with those shoes. And improvements with the vapor fly 4% were smaller for faster runners. Also many runners choose shoes based on injury prevention and comfort - if a shoe gets you to the starting line uninjured with plenty of training miles that's an infinite time improvement over pulling out of the race injured.

Wired did a good analysis on this too https://www.wired.com/story/do-nike-zoom-vaporfly-make-you-r...

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#103

Post by dpark »

jdietrich wrote: post #84
justinsaccount wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running sneakers are a relatively new invention. This is true, humans have been running for thousands of years without them. > You wouldn't want to run a marathon in whatever the ancient greeks wore. why not? > Abebe Bikila (August 7, 1932 – October 25, 1973) was an Ethiopian double Olympic marathon champion. He won the marathon at the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome while running barefoot, setting a world record. He…

>why not? We didn't evolve to run on tarmac or concrete. Public roads are strewn with broken glass and fragments of metal. Regular distance running is punishing on your joints, even if you're a forefoot runner with perfect form.

Okay, but we did evolve to run on dirt and rock, neither of which are particularly soft. Equally important, studies indicate that impact does not decrease when running on softer surfaces. Runner instinctively step harder on soft surfaces and more softer on hard surfaces, to get the same feedback from their feet and legs.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#104

Post by BanazirGalbasi »

js2 wrote: post #98
justinsaccount wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running sneakers are a relatively new invention. This is true, humans have been running for thousands of years without them. > You wouldn't want to run a marathon in whatever the ancient greeks wore. why not? > Abebe Bikila (August 7, 1932 – October 25, 1973) was an Ethiopian double Olympic marathon champion. He won the marathon at the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome while running barefoot, setting a world record. He…

FWIW, four years later he won the Tokyo Olympics marathon wearing Pumas in a new world-record time of 2:12:11.2.

Which just goes to prove the point that it's the person, not the equipment, that determines performance at that level.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#105

Post by jnotwell »

fhood wrote: post #6

If these shoes really can provide a measurable improvement in times they probably should be banned. Otherwise it will go the way of swimming, where a bunch of world records got set before they ended up banning those full body suits.

Track spikes for shorter events have included a rigid plate - sometimes made of carbon fiber - for as long as I can remember.

The Vaporfly 4% could simply be viewed as a technology transfer to shoes intended for longer distances.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#106

Post by tomazio »

justinsaccount wrote: post #77
gwbas1c wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running sneakers are a relatively new invention. You wouldn't want to run a marathon in whatever the ancient greeks wore. If this kind of thing is important, the best approach is to narrowly define what athletes can wear. (Shoes, socks, compression sleeves, clothes, ect.) Then, working within the limits is part of the sport itself.

> Running sneakers are a relatively new invention. This is true, humans have been running for thousands of years without them. > You wouldn't want to run a marathon in whatever the ancient greeks wore. why not? > Abebe Bikila (August 7, 1932 – October 25, 1973) was an Ethiopian double Olympic marathon champion. He won the marathon at the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome while running barefoot, setting a world record. He…

When you get to the highest levels of competition in any event, it's almost exclusively the little things that make the biggest difference. This is because the greatest athletes/competitors will have mastered most everything else surrounding their sport/event and the only differences that remain between them lay in the minute details.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#107

Post by jcdavis »

justinsaccount wrote: post #77
gwbas1c wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running sneakers are a relatively new invention. You wouldn't want to run a marathon in whatever the ancient greeks wore. If this kind of thing is important, the best approach is to narrowly define what athletes can wear. (Shoes, socks, compression sleeves, clothes, ect.) Then, working within the limits is part of the sport itself.

> Running sneakers are a relatively new invention. This is true, humans have been running for thousands of years without them. > You wouldn't want to run a marathon in whatever the ancient greeks wore. why not? > Abebe Bikila (August 7, 1932 – October 25, 1973) was an Ethiopian double Olympic marathon champion. He won the marathon at the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome while running barefoot, setting a world record. He…

> I don't know about you, but I can't run a 2:15 marathon or a 4 minute mile, and I don't think fancy shoes would make the difference.

But for those that can, fancy shoes make a massive difference.

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#108

Post by al_chemist »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #99
fhood wrote: post #6

If these shoes really can provide a measurable improvement in times they probably should be banned. Otherwise it will go the way of swimming, where a bunch of world records got set before they ended up banning those full body suits.

It seems very a very different perspective from other sports like Formula1. Nobody would bat an eye if someone created a better engine to win F1 races.

Unless it's better suspension[0]?

0 - https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/7u2bmk/the_suspen...

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#109

Post by pg314 »

jdietrich wrote: post #84
justinsaccount wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running sneakers are a relatively new invention. This is true, humans have been running for thousands of years without them. > You wouldn't want to run a marathon in whatever the ancient greeks wore. why not? > Abebe Bikila (August 7, 1932 – October 25, 1973) was an Ethiopian double Olympic marathon champion. He won the marathon at the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome while running barefoot, setting a world record. He…

>why not? We didn't evolve to run on tarmac or concrete. Public roads are strewn with broken glass and fragments of metal. Regular distance running is punishing on your joints, even if you're a forefoot runner with perfect form.

> Regular distance running is punishing on your joints, even if you're a forefoot runner with perfect form.

The studies I'm aware of (e.g. [1]) point in the opposite direction: runners have a lower risk of osteoarthritis, potentially because they have a lower BMI. As an avid long distance runner myself, if you have any evidence to the contrary, I'd be very interested to read it.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23377837

Re: Nike Says Its $250 Running Shoes Will Make You Run Much Faster

#110

Post by andai »

andbberger wrote: post #3

I don't know, sandals work pretty good. > they have a carbon-fiber plate in the midsole, which stores and releases energy with each stride ... the achilles tendon + calf already play this role. Just don't heel strike.

Alan Watts called this running on the "balls of your feet."
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