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How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

citylab.com

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Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#131

Post by KozmoNau7 »

MarkusAllen wrote: post #15
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the first HN comment is always a book suggestion. :) I recently got rid of my car after four years of living in a city. I don't know why I held onto it for so long, but my life has improved dramatically. Not only can I go anywhere I want, but I never have to worry about permits, tickets, or parking. This lifestyle can't work for people outside of cities, though. There's no way to get anyplace without a car, an…

In a city, how do you handle buying a socket wrench to fix something in your house? (It sounds like a MAJOR hassle.)

Bike to one of the 3 (or 4?) hardware stores in a 10-15min radius. The closest one is barely 5 minutes away, but it's a bit expensive.

If I need something specialized, I either take public transit all the way there, or ride my bike to the S-train station and bring my bike on the train.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#132

Post by bluetomcat »

King-Aaron wrote: post #123

I have three cars. I have a four wheel drive, for going out to collect fire wood, go camping, and do generally outdoors things with. I have a race/track car for being a general nuisance to society and shooting flames at people. And then I have a silly little automatic Honda for doing errands around the city when I need something cheap to operate and nimble around tight streets and things. Having these cars all fit pa…

Exactly, owning a car doesn't actually oblige you to use it every day. I also have two garaged cars (a sports coupe and an economical diesel estate), located within a 30 minute walking distance from my home, because parking space is scarce. I use the estate for long trips and the coupe for short weekend trips. While driving, I enjoy every bit of it. I also enjoy keeping both cars in top shape. During the week, I solely walk and the temptation to use the cars is reduced because of the long distance to the garage.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#133

Post by walrus01 »

I would encourage anyone who wants to compare two very different cities to drive and ride the rail systems around Seattle and Vancouver.

Vancouver has had a fully automated light rail system since 1986. New lines added in 2000 and 2009. There's significant high rise condo and apartment density around many stations.

City council a very long time ago cancelled a plan to build a freeway from east vancouver to downtown.

Seattle is sort of the opposite of that, it's very much more car dependent. The new light rail line helps a lot but its entry into service date was 22+ years after Vancouver's.

In my experience in Vancouver a great deal more people live a lifestyle that doesn't involve owning a car. Gas is a lot more expensive and insurance is more expensive. Many "normal" people commute daily on transit.

This is from 2002 but I don't think there's anything about it which is less relevant today, regarding suburban architecture/urban design and the lifestyles associated with extensive suburban sprawl:

https://www.weeklystandard.com/david-brooks/patio-man-and-th...

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#134

Post by KozmoNau7 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #77

I find there are a number of things I cannot do without someone having a car. 1) Go hiking, snowboarding, mountain biking 2) Drive fast on road courses 3) Come home from the airport after midnight 4) Purchase more than 2 bags of groceries (including TP, laundry detergent et al) 5) Go on road trips 6) Isolate myself from the mentally ill or obnoxious behaviors and smells I'm surrounded by, including their fecal matter…

I live without a car, and yet I manage to do all[1] of the things you mention by biking, using public transit and rental cars/vans/trucks on occasion.

I thought it would be really annoying to live without a car, but it's actually quite nice, and I save so much money on fuel and maintenance.

[1] aside from the road courses. I race gocarts for fun instead.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#135

Post by KozmoNau7 »

sampo wrote: post #53
pdonis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have to build either a car-centric America or a non-car-centric America. We can, if we choose, build an America that has places for people who want cars, and places for people who don't. That was supposed to be a key idea of America--that not everybody has to live the same way.

You can spring up a new, distant, car-based suburb on a pristine land. The deer and the groundhog who used to live there, don't get a vote. But usually, people who already live in a city of, say, density X, are pretty strongly opposed to building more and increasing the density to 1.2 X. Also, those 0.2 X new residents naturally are only moving in in the future, so they don't get to vote, either. Somehow, the attitud…

Increasing density in cities is not the only way to get people out of their cars. It is very possible to expand cities outwards, while still maintaining walkability and bikeability. Expanding public transit alongside the city is one of the best ways.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#136

Post by dixie_land »

King-Aaron wrote: post #123

I have three cars. I have a four wheel drive, for going out to collect fire wood, go camping, and do generally outdoors things with. I have a race/track car for being a general nuisance to society and shooting flames at people. And then I have a silly little automatic Honda for doing errands around the city when I need something cheap to operate and nimble around tight streets and things. Having these cars all fit pa…

similar experience, I use my Jeep to go anywhere city or jungle and the Mustang for the strip and simply for nice summer days.

My drive to and from work is long at 1 hour each way but I found it still time well spent catching up on news on the radio. Once in the city I actually enjoy walking everywhere even for distance that my city friends would drive or take an Uber to.

If driving doesn't put a smile on your face you simply have the wrong vehicle.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#137

Post by whatsstolat »

adrianN wrote: post #125
GiorgioG wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m happy for you but not everyone lives in such a place that has that many options within spitting distance.

So your argument is that you need your car because you don't live in a place that is designed for humans, so we shouldn't change cities to be less car dependent?

Flipside is suburban areas have more land attached to the house (for a given $) and bigger parks etc. That's more humane than inner cities.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#138

Post by didibus »

bigger_cheese wrote: post #99
didibus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you lived the alternative? It's obvious people are raised to want large houses and large yards, its cultural, but given we'd know the true experience of both would we still feel that way? I've lived the big city, high density European lifestyle, I lived it in America too, and in Canada, and I've lived the American and Canadian small town life. They're both nice. The small town life is great if the community is h…

I'm not sure about Europe and America but where I live (Australia) living in the city is ridiculously expensive (Sydney routinely ranks as one of the highest cost of living cities in the world). When I was growing up I lived in the suburbs, I hated it so far from everything, very infrequent public transport (lucky to get one bus an hour). Maybe worst of all as a young geek poor internet speed. I was stuck on dial up…

I totally understand that. Cities can be crazy expensive, and small towns lack the job market some people need.

I guess I just wonder sometime, what if we designed a city where cars took second place, and high density, public transit, walk-ability, bike-ability, e-bike, car share, etc, was made the priority. Would it make for nicer cities, which are more livable and affordable?

I don't know, maybe not, but it seems as long as Car are still around, we'll never try it out.

EDIT: Generally, dense cities in the European style are like that because they were designed prior to the existence of Cars, and thus Cars have never been able to enter them successfully, too small roads, and weird road networks. Since they were made for walking, they're automatically higher density. But, those cities were also designed before public transit, e-bike, bikes, scooters, package delivery, car share, etc. So I feel like we could do much better then those today.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#139

Post by citation_please »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #77

I find there are a number of things I cannot do without someone having a car. 1) Go hiking, snowboarding, mountain biking 2) Drive fast on road courses 3) Come home from the airport after midnight 4) Purchase more than 2 bags of groceries (including TP, laundry detergent et al) 5) Go on road trips 6) Isolate myself from the mentally ill or obnoxious behaviors and smells I'm surrounded by, including their fecal matter…

Have you considered that "isolating" yourself from the people in your community who are most in need has had a negative impact on both you and your community? And that you may vastly overestimate the presence of crime and homelessness because of this isolation?

As someone who does take public transit on a daily basis and occasionally interacts with the homeless and petty criminals, the dehumanization of people in your own community in your comment is absolutely astounding. These people are your neighbors, whether they smell bad, have become victims of addiction, or have turned to petty crime.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#140

Post by dixie_land »

earloflexus wrote: post #11

The author did a great job of arguing the case that transportation preferences map semi-neatly to red tribe / blue tribe distinctions, but it doesn't convince me that cars cause Americans to be apart. I'm sure Americans would be closer together if more things were walkable for more people and I don't oppose investments in walkability. However, some people don't want that, some people are thrilled to drive a big vehic…

sounds like Joe Sixpack got nice MPGs, would've cost me 3 gallons round-trip XD
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