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How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

citylab.com

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Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#121

Post by passthefist »

arenaninja wrote: post #23

I'm a little torn. I don't remember my apartment days fondly (except during college and in Houston where apartments can be LARGE). Noise/smell/bugs from neighbors is awful to deal with, crummy stairwells (never an elevator), fighting for a parking spot and hauling groceries was a hassle. But I dislike driving for a commute, I've done as little as 30 minutes and up to 1.5 hours of commute, it's very stressful to be co…

> Noise/smell/bugs from neighbors is awful to deal with, crummy stairwells (never an elevator), fighting for a parking spot and hauling groceries was a hassle.

That's unfortunate. One of the things I love about my apartment (Chicago) is that I've got friendly neighbors, it's well kept, there's decent parking, and I've got a deli and 2 grocery stores in walking distance.

I'm a big fan of park and rides though, esp if it connects to rail. They seem like a good compromise to help alleviate congestion from a city and work to collect from lower dense areas where there's not enough density to support rail.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#122

Post by adrianN »

earloflexus wrote: post #11

The author did a great job of arguing the case that transportation preferences map semi-neatly to red tribe / blue tribe distinctions, but it doesn't convince me that cars cause Americans to be apart. I'm sure Americans would be closer together if more things were walkable for more people and I don't oppose investments in walkability. However, some people don't want that, some people are thrilled to drive a big vehic…

We could start by pricing in the damage cars do to the environment. A first step would be raising taxes on fuel until Joe Sixpack thinks twice before burning a gallon of gas to get his beer.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#123

Post by King-Aaron »

I have three cars.

I have a four wheel drive, for going out to collect fire wood, go camping, and do generally outdoors things with. I have a race/track car for being a general nuisance to society and shooting flames at people. And then I have a silly little automatic Honda for doing errands around the city when I need something cheap to operate and nimble around tight streets and things.

Having these cars all fit particular requirements I have. However I still end up riding my push-bike or taking the bus, because the normal day-to-day commute doesn't always require storage capacity.

I can certainly understand the reasons that people can be sufficiently happy with doing without a car. I can also understand the reasons why people are forced to need a car. I don't, however, like seeing people vilified or interrogated for being on either side of that fence.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#124

Post by mikekchar »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #3
mariodiana wrote: post #2

I feel bad if my comment ends up being the first one, because I'm coming to suggest a book that I immediately thought of as I got halfway through the article. If you want to read about human society and how much of it we're missing, read The Great Good Place, by Ray Oldenburg. (I believe it came out in the late 1980's.) There is a chapter on suburbia, and what an awful mess that has made of human sociability, particu…

I hope the first HN comment is always a book suggestion. :) I recently got rid of my car after four years of living in a city. I don't know why I held onto it for so long, but my life has improved dramatically. Not only can I go anywhere I want, but I never have to worry about permits, tickets, or parking. This lifestyle can't work for people outside of cities, though. There's no way to get anyplace without a car, an…

> This lifestyle can't work for people outside of cities

I'm not sure. You have to look to other places in the world to see examples of lower density living, though. I live in rural Japan in a small town. Officially I think it is officially 25K people, but that's only because it is more efficient for a single city hall to service a larger area. In reality, I think that it is closer to 5-10K in the town itself and then a spattering of people around the outskirts.

The main street of the town is 6 blocks long, if I remember correctly. I live 2 km away from the "hustle and bustle" of the town ;-) I live in a 3 story walk up apartment building surrounded on 3 sides by rice fields. Here and there, there are similar small apartment buildings, single family homes and small farms. In the walkable area, there are 3 grocery stores, a variety of restaurants, some clothing stores, some hardware stores, one electronics store, many bars (Japan is a drinking society), etc. There are many factories in the area (including TDK, Suzuki, and a few other big ones). There are dentists, doctors, etc, etc, etc.

I have to walk to the "down town" to catch the bus to the nearest big city, which I probably do once a month or so. However, that's it. Near the main street, it is mostly houses and shops, but by the time you get out my way (which is only a 20 minute walk) more than half of the land is farmland. The main street is right by the beach, too, so it only spreads in one direction. That should give you an idea of how small it is.

There are definitely places where it would be very difficult to live without a car, but it's pretty darn rural here and it's extremely comfortable to live if you are able bodied. If you have a bike, you can even easily ride to the next town (or the one after that). When I was teaching in the high school here, most of my students rode from 2 or 3 villages away, because there weren't enough students in the area to fill up the school. So depending on your definition of "city", I think it's completely doable. You just have to intentionally design the towns to be accessible. (It also helps that farms in Japan are extremely small, by law).

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#125

Post by adrianN »

GiorgioG wrote: post #101
dionidium wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When your kid spikes a fever at 1am and you have no car and you need to go buy some children’s ibuprofen, what are you going to do? I could hit 3 bodegas from my front steps with a rock. I don't need to start a truck to get Ibuprofen.

I’m happy for you but not everyone lives in such a place that has that many options within spitting distance.

So your argument is that you need your car because you don't live in a place that is designed for humans, so we shouldn't change cities to be less car dependent?

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#126

Post by lev99 »

GiorgioG wrote: post #93

I personally love driving - but I work from home. Nothing makes me happier than remote starting my F150 and hearing its V8 roar from inside the house through several walls/doors. Have kids? When your kid spikes a fever at 1am and you have no car and you need to go buy some children’s ibuprofen, what are you going to do? I can run to my local 24/7 grocer or Walmart and be back in 10 minutes flat. My son had a bad reac…

> I can run to my local 24/7 grocer or Walmart and be back in 10 minutes flat.

> We were at the hospital in 15 minutes thanks to the modern automobile.

If you live within 3 minutes of a Walmart (3 minutes traveling there, 3 minutes checking out, and 3 minutes returning) and 15 minutes of a hospital you are significantly better located than the average suburbanite.

Most walkable urban areas will have 24 hour convenience stores every few blocks. Most walkable urban areas will have many options for quick travel to medical facilities (Zipcar like services, uber like services, frequent emergency clinics, ambulances).

I think cities have better access to medical care than suburban areas. There are more medical facilities. There are more options in choosing primary care. There are more specialist. There are more alternative treatment options. Try getting antibiotics for strep throat at 2am for less than $250 cash in less than ninety minutes in a suburb.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#127

Post by King-Aaron »

linkregister wrote: post #106
bigger_cheese wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about Europe and America but where I live (Australia) living in the city is ridiculously expensive (Sydney routinely ranks as one of the highest cost of living cities in the world). When I was growing up I lived in the suburbs, I hated it so far from everything, very infrequent public transport (lucky to get one bus an hour). Maybe worst of all as a young geek poor internet speed. I was stuck on dial up…

Why not move to a smaller city that is more affordable? Brisbane has software jobs and a lower cost of living. Condos in Perth near the CBD are surprisingly very affordable, though there are fewer good jobs.

Perth has a sickeningly low density of residents within the CBD, and as a result you can get some really good deals on apartments within a stones throw to the city. It's also got a pretty good 'small town' sort of atmosphere compared to other cities.

It's not exactly the most progressive of places, however. But personally I love it.

NB: I'm currently in the position of purchasing land in Perth and you can get some good sub-$200k deals on 350-400 square metre blocks within 20 minutes to the city too if you look around.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#128

Post by KozmoNau7 »

adrian_mrd wrote: post #70

A great Dutch ‘invention’ is what is known as a Bakfiets - effectively a longer, heavier bicycle with a large ‘bucket’ (bak) at the front that can carry two children and/or lots of shopping or goods. Also worth noting is the huge environmental cost of cars - not just in carbon monoxide, huge array of components and metals they require to build, impact on climate change, etc., but also how they create ‘nature barriers…

We've had similar bikes to the Bakfiets here in Denmark since 1929, the "Long John" as it was originally known. It's no surprise really, considering the very similar flatness of our countries, that bicycle culture is so big in both our countries.

Nowadays, I think people are more comfortable riding the three-wheeled cargo bikes, or Christiania Bikes, as they're commonly known.

You can transport a surprising amount of stuff on either type, especially the e-bike versions.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#129

Post by maccam94 »

claydavisss wrote: post #24
ta1234567890 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you mean American corporations and people in power love space and their cars and the money they make off of selling and developing those things? For example, LA used to have a great train network for public transportation until the automobile industry made sure to tear it down so people would be forced to drive cars. In SF/BayArea people want zoning to change so there can be more housing/apartment buildings. Wh…

No living in the country is actually not a vast alt-right conspiracy.

Well, not alt right...

De-urbanization was spurred by housing shortages post-WW2 and federal policy seeking to stabilize the housing market. The FHA was created to insure home loans that met a long list of requirements[1], which had biases towards increasing consumption (including cars) and racial segregation. The marketing and growth of suburbia was then promoted by various business interests that would benefit from that increased consumption[2]. The new suburban lifestyle led to the rise of modern conservatism[3]. Most (~85% [3]) of the US lives in metropolitan areas, so rural lifestyles are not typical and it would be vastly less efficient if everyone lived there rather than in cities.

1: https://marketurbanism.com/2017/09/12/financing-suburbia-how...

2: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/...

3: http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/97...

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#130

Post by adrianN »

ryanhuff wrote: post #43
eysquared wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Seattle with a 2 year old and one more on the way. I can't believe I ever considered leaving the city to have kids. I can walk to a coffee shop 3 blocks away without taking 15 minutes to strap my kid in a car seat and the amount of parks we have access to in a short walk in incredible. We take the bus to the zoo and aquarium and my son loves seeing all the people and looking out the window. Being out and ab…

I suspect when your kids become older, your life will become more dictated by your kids activities that you don’t control as much. Sports practices and games, school, etc. These will be unlikely be centered around walking distance from home. And, then, I will welcome you back to the fold of parent indenturedness. :)

When the kids become older they should be able to take public transport by themselves. I took the bus to school when I was six. In Japan it's common to send little kids shopping by themselves. There are popular shows available on Youtube that show five year olds going on errands for the first time. For example here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5k5XTZy0rA
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