Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#71

Post by erredois » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

Yizahi wrote: post #59

novaRom wrote: post #3

From their privacy policy: "When you install Vivaldi browser, each installation profile is assigned a unique user ID that is stored on your computer. Vivaldi will send a message using HTTPS directly to our servers located in Iceland every 24 hours containing this ID, version, cpu architecture, screen resolution and time since last message. We anonymize the IP address of Vivaldi users by removing the last octet of the…

Yes, it is enough: https://panopticlick.eff.org/ PS: my result Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 1,852,797 tested in the past 45 days. Currently, we estimate that your browser has a fingerprint that conveys at least 20.82 bits of identifying information.

That is an interesting site. It made me think that the best way to avoid this tracking is to have the most common OS with the most common Browser and all default settings.

I am a linux and firefox user in Brazil. I am probably very easy to track combining this information with my geolocation and ISP.

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#72

Post by greenhouse_gas » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 4:49 PM UTC

hawski wrote: post #16

onyva wrote: post #7

Stick with Mozilla Firefox. Don’t understand why people still believe a for-profit Corp will prioritize users rights. ... not to mention Brendan Eich’s divisive and controversial behavior befor he was forced out of Mozilla.

Firefox is developed by a for-profit corporation the Mozilla Corporation, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. It's of course not to say that the Mozilla Corporation is an evil profit seeker, but merely a perspective. I for one think that modern web standards are used by most web site authors not in users interests. Therefore implementing those standards in good faith not necessarily mean imp…

What I'd like to see is a memory safe JS interpreter (no JIT) - yes, it will be slow, but 90% of websites don't need JS go that fast, but JIT opens up a security can of worms.

So if I go to Google docs, I can toggle spidermonkey (or whatever Firefox's JS compiler is called nowadays), but if I go to $randomwebsite, I'll get a secure and usable web.

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#73

Post by nmbr213 » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 6:19 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #56

nmbr213 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mozilla Firefox The browser that's has Google Analytics integrated, comes with pre-installed third-party tracking app, and that reports home every UI interaction you have? No, thanks, I'll stick with Iridium. [1] https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/firefox.html

>No, thanks, I'll stick with Iridium ...which was last updated may 2018.

Whole two months!

As long as there are no missing security updates, I don't see how it's a deal breaker.

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#74

Post by morganvachon » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 9:35 PM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #50

morganvachon wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is becoming more user hostile with each revision, though. I've been using Waterfox as a more privacy-conscious alternative, but long term I'd like to see a new, fully open source, privacy focused, user-first browser that doesn't phone home for any reason. Waterfox is 99% there, but I feel the developer is having issues moving it to the Firefox Quantum release due to all the extra crap Mozilla shoveled into th…

> the Firefox Quantum release [...] all the extra crap Mozilla shoveled into that release. Hadn't heard about extra user-hostile stuff in this release? What things are the Waterfox guys having trouble with?

The bulk of the user-hostile bits are in this list[1] of what's removed from Firefox for the Waterfox builds, mostly telemetry and tracking, Pocket, ad-supported nonsense, and DRM (for those who prefer a DRM-free first class browsing experience).

Waterfox also allows users to continue using "classic" extensions that Mozilla completely abandoned, and the developer has committed to staying with Firefox ESR until he feels Quantum has reached a point where he can switch to that codebase (i.e. maintain older extensions while allowing new features).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfox#Overview

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#75

Post by onyva » Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

cmroanirgo wrote: post #13

onyva wrote: post #7

Stick with Mozilla Firefox. Don’t understand why people still believe a for-profit Corp will prioritize users rights. ... not to mention Brendan Eich’s divisive and controversial behavior befor he was forced out of Mozilla.

Some fact checking (because I wanted to read about these accusations) reveals this is not the case. > Stick with Mozilla Firefox Brendan Eich is CEO of Brave browser. He is not listed as being part of vivaldi browser, which this phrase implies. > forced out of Mozilla. Brendan Eich was not fired nor forced out by Mozilla. Mozilla themselves report these statements: [0] 1. Q: Was Brendan Eich fired? A: No 2. Q: Was Br…

True about Brave, part of my pasted text (on my phone) is missing.

It meant to say like all other similar initiatives, they don’t add anything were differentiation is possible and that’s privacy IMHO.

Firefox IS the only browser users can trust these days.

The rant about Eich was given in respect to Brave and not Vivaldi. Apologies to the developers of Vivaldi.

I said forced not fired. He couldn’t have stayed. There’s no place for racists and homophobes in Mozilla.

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#76

Post by onyva » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 6:28 AM UTC

dao- wrote: post #30

hawski wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is developed by a for-profit corporation the Mozilla Corporation, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. It's of course not to say that the Mozilla Corporation is an evil profit seeker, but merely a perspective. I for one think that modern web standards are used by most web site authors not in users interests. Therefore implementing those standards in good faith not necessarily mean imp…

> Firefox is developed by a for-profit corporation the Mozilla Corporation, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. It's of course not to say that the Mozilla Corporation is an evil profit seeker, but merely a perspective. "wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation" is the more important part here, because the Foundation is nonprofit and eventually has authority over the corporation, so…

Thanks for clarifying what it means, though it's amusing free software detractors are still using this trick (guess that how "fake news" is used to make people act against their own interest.)

There's no other browser developer that's focused on user rights online other than Mozilla. These days it can't be just features and performance, though Firefox does not need any help in that respect either. Current version are simply brilliant.

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#77

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 8:24 AM UTC

gaellelo wrote: post #36

novaRom wrote: post #3

From their privacy policy: "When you install Vivaldi browser, each installation profile is assigned a unique user ID that is stored on your computer. Vivaldi will send a message using HTTPS directly to our servers located in Iceland every 24 hours containing this ID, version, cpu architecture, screen resolution and time since last message. We anonymize the IP address of Vivaldi users by removing the last octet of the…

Hey, here's Gaëlle Medeiros-Logeay, Data Protection Officer at Vivaldi. The data we collect is not personally identifiable, and we try to keep it as minimal as possible. :) We're not in the business of collecting data, and we do not sell them to advertisers like others do. The collected data helps us to understand where most of our users come from. Our stats show us which country our users are located in and nothing…

[deleted]

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#78

Post by lucideer » Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 11:40 AM UTC

morganvachon wrote: post #74

lucideer wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Firefox Quantum release [...] all the extra crap Mozilla shoveled into that release. Hadn't heard about extra user-hostile stuff in this release? What things are the Waterfox guys having trouble with?

The bulk of the user-hostile bits are in this list[1] of what's removed from Firefox for the Waterfox builds, mostly telemetry and tracking, Pocket, ad-supported nonsense, and DRM (for those who prefer a DRM-free first class browsing experience). Waterfox also allows users to continue using "classic" extensions that Mozilla completely abandoned, and the developer has committed to staying with Firefox ESR until he fee…

Thanks for the explanation. The telemetry/tracking stuff is what I'm mainly concerned by (and was previously aware of) but I balked at the idea that they'd introduced something more in Quantum that I hadn't yet heard of.

Ironically I'd be far more interested in switching to Waterfox if it switched to Quantum. Not only is the new extension's API far nicer than the previous one for new developers starting new extensions (yes porting old extensions is a pain, and sometimes impossible due to lack of feature-parity) but it's much more secure, which should be a priority for something focused on protecting a user's privacy. Furthermore, I wasn't aware until reading your linked list, but it appears Waterfox allows installing unsigned extensions by default: is this true? The unsigned config value is already very easy to set in Firefox, but having it set by default is just asking for users to shoot themselves in the foot in terms of leaking private data to extensions.

The porting effort from Mozilla's side can hardly be described as "developer-hostile" either; they've continuously added APIs for specific 3rd-party extensions on-request, and had a 2+ year compatibility roll out with plenty of shouty warning.

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#79

Post by wst_ » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 12:55 AM UTC

untog wrote: post #62

vntok wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically, if they geolocate you once per 24h, they will find you either at home or at work. Once both locations are known, determining which is which does not strike me as very hard.

But their only method of location is IP, with the last octet removed. No way that's accurate enough to identify your home and work location.

If you are working in any bigger company they have more than a C class, so they can identify company. If you go there frequently you are employee. You can infer how often /24 changes, means you are traveling or even commuting between work and home. You can't infer exact location but some close area can be guessed. They have a set of data for bigger group so they can create highly probable guesses what people may be doing and where they are.

Re: Vivaldi now includes Qwant, a privacy-focused search engine based in Europe

#80

Post by morganvachon » Sat, Jul 21, 2018, 11:43 AM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #78

morganvachon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bulk of the user-hostile bits are in this list[1] of what's removed from Firefox for the Waterfox builds, mostly telemetry and tracking, Pocket, ad-supported nonsense, and DRM (for those who prefer a DRM-free first class browsing experience). Waterfox also allows users to continue using "classic" extensions that Mozilla completely abandoned, and the developer has committed to staying with Firefox ESR until he fee…

Thanks for the explanation. The telemetry/tracking stuff is what I'm mainly concerned by (and was previously aware of) but I balked at the idea that they'd introduced something more in Quantum that I hadn't yet heard of. Ironically I'd be far more interested in switching to Waterfox if it switched to Quantum. Not only is the new extension's API far nicer than the previous one for new developers starting new extension…

> Furthermore, I wasn't aware until reading your linked list, but it appears Waterfox allows installing unsigned extensions by default: is this true?

Yep and that's one of the reasons I say Waterfox is 99% there. I actually set that back to the Firefox default.

My biggest gripe with Firefox is its tendency towards making privacy hostile telemetry opt-out instead of opt-in, while still claiming they are the most privacy focused browser. They should either switch to opt-in, or remove language from their promotional materials and blog claiming to be privacy focused.