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Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#51

Post by Cthulhu_ »

King-Aaron wrote: post #16
scarecrowbob wrote: post #8

" Their safety and efficacy exist only within highly structured specialized treatment settings. In addition, desired outcomes depend upon the production of a temporary but profoundly regressed, disorganized and incapacitated state. Outside of that structure, psychedelics are no less abusable, acutely debilitating and liable to result in psychological damage—sometimes severe and unremitting—than they ever were." This…

Anecdotally, I was at a doof (bush rave) a few years ago, where one of the punters decided to go for a stroll in the middle of the night - head full of acid - and got promptly lost. Police search and rescue were called out, big dollar costs to the state, and while the kid turned up fine in that instance, it's statistically more likely you won't turn up fine in the Australian bush. I certainly feel that there's no abs…

Someone drunk could've done the same thing, wander out for a piss and get lost (or fall asleep / pass out).

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#52

Post by koliber »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #20
white-flame wrote: post #15

The headline's question should really be reframed to question the validity of these restrictions in the first place. I'm not a user of any of these sorts of substances, nor condone them, but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things. Sure, driving under the influence should be policed as a safety hazard, showing up to work out of your gourd should still get you fired, etc. But there…

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

You pose a plausible hypothesis.

Empirically, it has been shown to be wrong.

Portugal decriminalized all drugs in 2000. In the Netherlands many drugs, including psychedelics, have been available OTC for decades.

Both of these case studies show that you can decriminalize drugs on a wide scale. In Portugal, is had less to a decrease of abuse. I don't know the stats on the Netherlands, but I have not heard of any dire outcomes in that country either.

The key is to route a portion of the money that has been thus far used for enforcement and punishment into education, treatment, and rehabilitation.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#53

Post by Cthulhu_ »

1000units wrote: post #33
taurath wrote: post #5

Schedule 1 is clearly rediculous. I honestly think we need these powerful tools in therapeutic settings especially for addiction which is carving swathes through entire generations. I know multiple people who’ve gotten the ability and drive to grow past alcoholism using them, one can only hope it could be a tool for opiate addiction. Benefits for PTSD and traumatic experiences are practically proven at this point wit…

As a counterpoint, I know multiple people who became insane after trying LSD.

If you (or anyone) wants a very good (long, multipart, short book) report on an experience like that, check out https://www.stilldrinking.org/the-episode-part-1.

TL;DR, don't do LSD if you've not slept properly for a week.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#54

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Simon_says wrote: post #47
tasty_freeze wrote: post #29

The classification of LSD as a schedule I drug is unsupportable; it was researched for 20 years before it became a 60s plaything and the threat of the counter-culture movement to the establishment was enough to get all psychedelic research killed off. But as the article points out, there are real risks. There are a large number of LSD zealots who have not just goofy but dangerous beliefs about LSD. Spend any amount o…

I don't know what they're saying over on /r/lsd, but psychedelics can break you out of repetitive negative modes of thinking, giving you insights that last after the high is long gone. LSD is a tool that can work in in conjunction with other tools and changes you make in your life for some people some of the time.

key word being /can/; it's a statement and a belief that IMO is very sensitive to confirmation bias.

One of the key points of the psychedelics / soft drugs legalisation effort is that it would allow for a lot less red tape to do medical research on.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#55

Post by 1000units »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #53
1000units wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, I know multiple people who became insane after trying LSD.

If you (or anyone) wants a very good (long, multipart, short book) report on an experience like that, check out https://www.stilldrinking.org/the-episode-part-1 . TL;DR, don't do LSD if you've not slept properly for a week.

Here is another compelling public account: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#56

Post by anoneemouse »

1000units wrote: post #33
taurath wrote: post #5

Schedule 1 is clearly rediculous. I honestly think we need these powerful tools in therapeutic settings especially for addiction which is carving swathes through entire generations. I know multiple people who’ve gotten the ability and drive to grow past alcoholism using them, one can only hope it could be a tool for opiate addiction. Benefits for PTSD and traumatic experiences are practically proven at this point wit…

As a counterpoint, I know multiple people who became insane after trying LSD.

I think the consensus is psychedelics can trigger or exacerbate mental illness you're already predisposed to. If your family has a history of mental illness you should probably avoid psychedelics. Even if they don't it might be wise to wait until your late 20s to see if any signs of mental illness appear.

But that's not really any different than people predisposed to heart disease smoking or drinking alcohol or eating McDonalds.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#57

Post by lev99 »

TylerE wrote: post #17
justinator wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry that you're being downvoted, but you're right. You can't easily sell, and make a profit on acid (you certainly can't patent it). The dose needed for a trip is so small; a "therapeutic" dose is even tinier. The prison sentences for those who have produced acid are also completely ridiculous.

Huh? Sandoz Labs produced pharmaceutical LSD for decades

I think the parent comment is saying that a person taking legal lsd would spend significantly less money than a person drinking. Lsd and alcohol would compete for recreational time. Lsd would reduce the tax income from alcohol sales, and not be able to replace it with new tax revenue. Governments have a fanical incentive to keep lsd illegal.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#58

Post by Uberphallus »

1000units wrote: post #43
Uberphallus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More often than not, those people have previous mental health problems and LSD throws them over the edge. Sometimes the trigger is a getting your head hit, sometimes receiving a prize, sometimes getting dumped, sometimes after giving birth. At the end of the day you don't see any correlation between psychedelic usage and mental health issues, same as with the examples I gave. LSD is an emotional earthquake, and shoul…

Of course there's a correlation. You've just described one of the causes yourself. Giving people very focused nudges in precisely the wrong direction is absolutely a terrible and serious effect. Many people live their life on the edge without ever falling off. Think about the prevalence of depression versus incidence of suicide as an example.

There's no correlation, it can be a trigger, like giving birth can be a trigger. Let's make breeding illegal?

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#59

Post by 1000units »

Uberphallus wrote: post #58
1000units wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there's a correlation. You've just described one of the causes yourself. Giving people very focused nudges in precisely the wrong direction is absolutely a terrible and serious effect. Many people live their life on the edge without ever falling off. Think about the prevalence of depression versus incidence of suicide as an example.

There's no correlation, it can be a trigger, like giving birth can be a trigger. Let's make breeding illegal?

There is a correlation between people who develop serious mental illness and people who take LSD. The effect you are describing guarantees this (under very weak and sensible assumptions).

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#60

Post by 1000units »

anoneemouse wrote: post #56
1000units wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, I know multiple people who became insane after trying LSD.

I think the consensus is psychedelics can trigger or exacerbate mental illness you're already predisposed to. If your family has a history of mental illness you should probably avoid psychedelics. Even if they don't it might be wise to wait until your late 20s to see if any signs of mental illness appear. But that's not really any different than people predisposed to heart disease smoking or drinking alcohol or eatin…

In the worst case McDonald's takes far longer to effectively render you a nonperson, for one. Tastes better too.
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