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I’m leaving China

baldingsworld.com

91–100 of 219 posts

Re: I’m leaving China

#91

I really like this piece. So many good paragraphs. Especially the end, and specifically: > The United States has repeatedly failed and continues to fall short of its ideals but has shown a greater sense of self correction than almost any other. In China you cannot talk about most of history, while in the United States there are constant reminders about failures and how to apply those lessons.

A comparison of the same order could be transposed to the USA and Germany.

Re: I’m leaving China

#92

Contrast this: "I will use strong language about the authoritarian communist government but I do not want that in anyway to reflect upon the Chinese people." With these sentences: "There is a complete and utter lack of respect for the individual or person in China. People do not have innate value as people simply because they exist. This leads most directly to a lack of respect for the law/rules/norms. One thing I be…

Not sure why you are downvoted, reading the 2nd paragraph you cited (and some other parts in the article), it's definitely hard to view them as comments only against the government instead of generalizing over a people. I guess since this post is mostly a rant (?), we could afford a less coherent statements. But it does feel a bit like one of those "not being a racist, but..." moments.

Re: I’m leaving China

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American wait staff have to rely on tips rather than a living wage, which forces them to take unending amounts of crap, or else they can't pay the rent. American consumers can and do verbally (and sometimes physically) abuse wait staff, and if the staff don't sit there and take it with a smile, they get fired. I don't find this an endearing trait.

Go to france and try going to a restaurant. You'll see what i mean, right away. It's a world of a difference.

In France, if you want a waiter, you call them over. When they have time, they'll get to you. They leave you alone because most French people don't want to be bothered a lot while they're talking and eating, or reading the paper (a sentiment I can get down with).

If something is screwed up with the food, they would first probably wonder why this American tourist thinks that the French chef screwed up the dish that their grandmother probably taught them how to cook. Then they'll listen to you, shrug, and take it back and tell the manager or the chef. One of them would decide what was appropriate.

If you told them you just didn't enjoy the dish and you wanted another one, they may ask you why you ordered the first dish in the first place, and why you think you deserve a free dish. If you ask for substitutions, they'd probably tell you no, because most chefs don't want to deal with that and often the way dishes are made preclude substitutions, not to mention backing up other orders. And they'd be in the right. It's kind of stunning sometimes how privileged American consumers can act.

A caveat to this is if you're in Paris; they can be really nice or really rude based on a number of factors. In a small town, French people are really friendly and helpful.

Re: I’m leaving China

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American wait staff have to rely on tips rather than a living wage, which forces them to take unending amounts of crap, or else they can't pay the rent. American consumers can and do verbally (and sometimes physically) abuse wait staff, and if the staff don't sit there and take it with a smile, they get fired. I don't find this an endearing trait.

Go to france and try going to a restaurant. You'll see what i mean, right away. It's a world of a difference.

I've been to france and restaurants there and trust me, other than the lack of free water, everything is better. The food is better, you order from the menu and it comes out and turns out you don't have to pay the waiter's wage on top of that! It also results in waiters not being overly/fake friendly and constantly checking on you which I much prefer.

There is no change in the amount of time between your order and the food arriving but that's because it's dependent on the chef/how busy the restaurant is/etc.

Re: I’m leaving China

#95

I never thought quite as broadly as the author, but what he says is consistent with one thing I observed -- driving and pedestrian behavior. In China drivers and pedestrians are both better and worse than those in the US. I found drivers and pedestrians both to be much more aware and had more agency about what they needed to to be safe. Whereas in the US we assume a lot more that the rules of the road are going to be…

The downside to China's way is that driving is A LOT slower because you have to assume no one is following the rules. I've been a passenger in China where there were multiple near misses but was averted because the actual driving speed is low. This is the same in many areas of life and industry: if you can safely assume everyone follows some standard, you can optimize but arriving at that set of rule and rule following behavior takes time. China is very much in the "move fast break stuff (sometimes literally)" phase.

Re: I’m leaving China

#96
Since the line-cutting topic seems to be of interest, I thought I’d share some first hand experience.

Having succumbed to the need for a Big Mac a handful of times during a decade long stint in China, I became accustomed to the devolution of queuing when it was peak time. I quickly found myself pushing in and cutting others off, to make sure my order was taken.

This made me reflect on how quickly I adapted to the situation. I found that when push comes to shove, we seem to have a threshold which says “bugger it, I want my burger more than I care about being polite”. I guess this is obvious, but how easily I threw my supposed Western manners out the window was what surprised me.

I think there’s a couple of observations that are interesting, which aren’t covered in the article;

- People that tended to queue jump just hadn’t been told it wasn’t ok. If it wasn’t already complete anarchy, quite often another person in the queue would tell them off with a stern “get in line”, to which the offender would apologize and shuffle to the back of the line

- In some places they have staff that “queue-manage”. Nobody cuts the queue or complains, they just wait for their turn patiently, albeit not usually quietly

I believe China knows it has accrued some deep social issues to deal with, and that debt will need to be paid off slowly. I remember a few years back that TV and print adverts promoting “dynastic and elitist” culture were banned. I think that says a lot about the governments mindset.

I hope the above gives a little more context to anyone who hasn’t had the privilege of finding themselves stuck in a fast-food restaurant in downtown Beijing during peak hour.

Re: I’m leaving China

#97
post #28
post #22

Can anyone comment on the risks of posting such an essay while still living in China? Is this considered safely within the lines, a calculated risk, or something else? (Or has he already left China before posting the essay?)

To be fair, his blog was never exactly positive on China, and (as he states in the article) he was very wary of crossing the fine line between moderate criticism and falling afoul of the CCP. Between the fact that he was forced out of his position, and that he says he's "grateful" not to have been detained, I imagine he feels safe enough to get a shot off as he leaves. I don't think the government would get rid of hi…

I give him credit for even trying China. China is the opposite of libertarianism both culturally and politically. Even without the party, personal liberty and worth doesn't factor in much in China or anywhere where Confucianism took root. It's always in relations to others that you derive your worth. That aspect of my heritage has always sit poorly with me (then again I was raised in the US). I'm not saying one way is better than the other but for a libertarian to give it a try took some courage.

Re: I’m leaving China

#98
post #90

It's interesting that prior to Xi's leadership, you could have a conversation about almost anything in China, so long as you didn't attack the Party itself. Now, as the author points out, mere discussion of economy, business, and financial markets can put you at risk. What's especially ominous is the banning of Winnie the Pooh from media; when even harmless cartoon characters are see to be a threat to the party, you…

It seems like they went from pragmatism back to authoritarianism.

They went from being pragmatic back to being overly ideological. History forever repeats itself, even more so in China where they are not allowed to discuss it openly & objectively.

Re: I’m leaving China

#99
post #22

Can anyone comment on the risks of posting such an essay while still living in China? Is this considered safely within the lines, a calculated risk, or something else? (Or has he already left China before posting the essay?)

Its not that bad, this man is still too small fry and his words have too small an impact on Chinese society. If you can imagine having a billion messages almost flying around couple seconds from the Chinese population all of which could contain obscenities, trolls, porn, memes critical of govt, and even criminal chatting then this little drop isnt really anything. I highly doubt anyone outside of Baldings' academic and blog circle even knows about Baldings' opinions.

Re: I’m leaving China

#100

I never thought quite as broadly as the author, but what he says is consistent with one thing I observed -- driving and pedestrian behavior. In China drivers and pedestrians are both better and worse than those in the US. I found drivers and pedestrians both to be much more aware and had more agency about what they needed to to be safe. Whereas in the US we assume a lot more that the rules of the road are going to be…

A kid chasing a ball out into a crowded street is more likely to survive in China Han the USA. They aren’t expecting it in the USA, they are expecting everything in China, and the more orderly traffic in the USA causes it to move faster and hence be more dangerous if something exceptional happens.

> A kid chasing a ball out into a crowded street is more likely to survive in China Han the USA.

That sounds nice but the fact is more people per 100,000 are killed in China than the US.

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