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I’m leaving China

baldingsworld.com

61–70 of 219 posts

Re: I’m leaving China

#61

The observations about the Chinese people here are racist, inaccurate, and quite frankly plainly incorrect as a whole. Just the observations about what he thinks Chinese people's values are, when compared to actual Confucianism, are pretty inflammatory and ridiculous. I think the flagging of the comment exemplifies how fearful people are of admitting to being a party to prejudice.

Explain which observations you think are racist, inaccurate, incorrect, inflammatory, and ridiculous. Don't just assert it and expect others to read your mind.

Re: I’m leaving China

#62

The observations about the Chinese people here are racist, inaccurate, and quite frankly plainly incorrect as a whole. Just the observations about what he thinks Chinese people's values are, when compared to actual Confucianism, are pretty inflammatory and ridiculous. I think the flagging of the comment exemplifies how fearful people are of admitting to being a party to prejudice.

No they’re not, they are frighteningly accurate for the most part.

There are two things that one should keep in mind to help one be less offended;

1) It’s not only the Chinese

2) It’s not all Chinese

Re: I’m leaving China

#63

Regarding the line-cutting/cheating he talks about. I like to distinguish between "culture" and something vaguer, which is what type of equilibrium someone is trapped in. I started to think this way when I lived in Argentina. Argentina is very corrupt, but just across the river is Uruguay...the least corrupt country in Latin America by some metrics. Argentines and Uruguayos are culturally quite similar (the relations…

You make some good points, but let me add there are two meanings for the term "culture" The narrow one is things like language and the arts. The broader one, which is what anthropologists study, is the entire workings of the society, which includes the sort of equilibriums you describe.

Re: I’m leaving China

#64

The observations about the Chinese people here are racist, inaccurate, and quite frankly plainly incorrect as a whole. Just the observations about what he thinks Chinese people's values are, when compared to actual Confucianism, are pretty inflammatory and ridiculous. I think the flagging of the comment exemplifies how fearful people are of admitting to being a party to prejudice.

No they’re not, they are frighteningly accurate for the most part. There are two things that one should keep in mind to help one be less offended; 1) It’s not only the Chinese 2) It’s not all Chinese

You could use that to defend literally any kind of racist or prejudicial generalization.

Re: I’m leaving China

#65

Regarding the line-cutting/cheating he talks about. I like to distinguish between "culture" and something vaguer, which is what type of equilibrium someone is trapped in. I started to think this way when I lived in Argentina. Argentina is very corrupt, but just across the river is Uruguay...the least corrupt country in Latin America by some metrics. Argentines and Uruguayos are culturally quite similar (the relations…

> "The difference is that in Argentine politics, if you're not corrupt you'll get destroyed." (This is kind of exaggerated but it gets the point across.) So while the cultures are similar, Wouldn’t you characterize that as a significant cultural difference. Accepting corruption can be viewed as cultural. I would view it this way.

You can define culture many ways obviously, but my point is that you can distinguish behaviors that move with the individual to other places and those that are part of stable equilibria, where one's choice only makes sense in light of others' choices. The latter are like n-player "Stag Hunt" games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stag_hunt

As an example, Singapore accepts a lot of Malays and Chinese every year (and most people are Chinese), but the country has "an obsession with queueing" (https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/no-time-wait-line-star...) and is very orderly w/r/t traffic laws and such.

Re: I’m leaving China

#66

I never thought quite as broadly as the author, but what he says is consistent with one thing I observed -- driving and pedestrian behavior. In China drivers and pedestrians are both better and worse than those in the US. I found drivers and pedestrians both to be much more aware and had more agency about what they needed to to be safe. Whereas in the US we assume a lot more that the rules of the road are going to be…

Raised in China here --- still largely prefer driving + walking on US roads.

Re: I’m leaving China

#67
This is a fairly disorganized, highly-opinionated blog post--it would benefit most from broken down into several smaller topics (Chinese government's treatment of expatriates and isolationism, US-China relations or the current state of the US government, opinions on Chinese social culture as a whole).

Since most of the comments here are commenting on the author's cultural opinions, I'll post a quote by Anthony Bourdain here. In the quote, Bourdain was talking about food, but it applies to culture as well, and even aligns with what the original poster said about China being more 'foreign than other countries': "The one thing I know for sure about China is, I will never know China. It’s too big, too old, too diverse, too deep. There’s simply not enough time."

People in Beijing might gawk at a foreigner (I've seen it happen), and you could even stereotype people in Beijing as doing so, but I've found that to be much less common in Shanghai. And these two are prominent cities--are rural villagers more likely to act isolationist, and if so, why? Because of the Chinese government's own isolationist principles, and China's history? The author should have been exploring this aspect in a historical context rather than simply criticizing.

Re: I’m leaving China

#68

I never thought quite as broadly as the author, but what he says is consistent with one thing I observed -- driving and pedestrian behavior. In China drivers and pedestrians are both better and worse than those in the US. I found drivers and pedestrians both to be much more aware and had more agency about what they needed to to be safe. Whereas in the US we assume a lot more that the rules of the road are going to be…

A kid chasing a ball out into a crowded street is more likely to survive in China Han the USA. They aren’t expecting it in the USA, they are expecting everything in China, and the more orderly traffic in the USA causes it to move faster and hence be more dangerous if something exceptional happens.

Re: I’m leaving China

#69

Very dense and impactful, for what it's worth I have also been on the receiving end of 'the foreigner in the elevator' but often people are nice and just (extremely) curious when you introduce yourself in their language. It does get exhausting really quick however

Ya. Eventually one just pretends they can’t speak mandarin even if they can.

Re: I’m leaving China

#70
It's interesting that prior to Xi's leadership, you could have a conversation about almost anything in China, so long as you didn't attack the Party itself. Now, as the author points out, mere discussion of economy, business, and financial markets can put you at risk. What's especially ominous is the banning of Winnie the Pooh from media; when even harmless cartoon characters are see to be a threat to the party, you know you're walking on eggshells.
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