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Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

#111

Post by ardy42 »

Eridrus wrote: post #64
addicted wrote: post #43

Btw, for all those who like to step in other aritcles about the concerns with social media, to tell us how it's just like TV was a few decades ago, this article shows why it absolutely is not. The persoinal targeting provided by FB and the like makes it an entirely different beast from past experiences.

It's not like TV, it's like mail advertising, which was starting to get attention for its lack of transparency before the 2016 cycle got everyone hyper attuned to Facebook's issues.

> It's not like TV, it's like mail advertising

Exactly. Targeted advertising is the junk mail that stuffs your mailbox and the spam that stuffs your inbox (or would, without massive technical mitigations). It's not the ads you see in a magazine or while watching TV.

Re: Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

#112

Post by ceejayoz »

cm2012 wrote: post #85
ceejayoz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kinda useless, though. They give you the most general of the targeting - all mine say stuff like "men in the United States" when they've clearly got additional very specific stuff enabled.

It's usually really precise IME (speaking as someone who does online ads and checks this all the time).

So, as an example, I just got an ad for a "personalized women's fashion" retailer (I'm male, and Facebook knows that for certain), that stated "You're seeing this ad because eShakti wants to reach people aged 23 to 56 who live or have recently been in the United States. This is information based on your Facebook profile and where you've connected to the Internet."

Now, I'm fairly certain that they're not casting that wide a net. Those filters may be in their targeting specs, but I can guarantee you there are more specific than that, especially as it started showing up after my wife went looking for women's dresses recently.

Re: Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

#113

Post by paulie_a »

mygo wrote: post #51
paulie_a wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people generally don't put it on their resumes, having Facebook on your resume is now something that makes it end up in the trash.

I disagree. I’m looking to recommend that a company I consult for hire an agency specifically and solely for their facebook advertising talents.

I am not the ultimate authority at my company but I get a small amount of input. And working at Facebook is an automatic pass now.

Re: Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

#114

Post by fareesh »

andy_ppp wrote: post #107
fareesh wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key word there is convince. Most replies to my post seem to think the act of making a promise means you have convinced the voter. It seems very hypocritical to think that people are responsible enough to choose their elected officials while at the same time argue that they can't be trusted to make an informed decision because of a Facebook ad which promised them what they wanted. If you microtarget me and your op…

If a person was to go round your office saying subtly different things to everyone in the hope of making friends and ending up in charge, would you think that was fair or would it make them a creep?

I'd think the people who put him in charge did it to themselves.

Re: Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

#116

Post by cm2012 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #112
cm2012 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's usually really precise IME (speaking as someone who does online ads and checks this all the time).

So, as an example, I just got an ad for a "personalized women's fashion" retailer (I'm male, and Facebook knows that for certain), that stated "You're seeing this ad because eShakti wants to reach people aged 23 to 56 who live or have recently been in the United States. This is information based on your Facebook profile and where you've connected to the Internet." Now, I'm fairly certain that they're not casting that…

looking again, you're right. i think they nerfed the tool.

Re: Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

#117

Post by notahacker »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #41

I'm fascinated to see the apparently limitless efforts that both the media and his own party went to in order to brand Corbyn as an extreme and dangerous left winger and undermine his progress. His policies were comparable to, and sometimes to the right of, those of the SDP. The SDP being the right of the Labour party who split in the 1980s and later merged with the Liberals to give today's LibDems. He was more of th…

Corbyn branded himself as a radical leftwinger for most of his career, including when it suited him during his leadership campaign.

Nobody remotely familiar with Corbyn would attempt to characterise his views as "fringe in his youth" or compare him with Blunkett unless they were being deliberately disingenuous. We're talking about someone with a lifelong dedication to "anti-imperialist" foreign policy causes who could be found delivering speeches about the fine example set by Chavismo and supposed progressive credentials of Hamas to tiny fringe audiences throughout his 60s (he's now 69). The one thing his staunchest supporters and biggest detractors agree on is that he's been largely consistent in his stances.

Re: Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

#118

Post by contravariant »

rankam wrote: post #104
andrepd wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point exactly. Advertising is unethical/immoral, plain and simple.

What if you are advertising to raise money/awareness for the poor/in-need? Is that unethical/immoral?

If you were to ask Kant, yes.

Assuming he'd agree that advertising was immoral, which he arguably would as advertising manipulates people in a way that might not be in their best interests, thereby using them as means and not as ends in and of themselves.

It's an interesting case though as merely informing people is not immoral, far from it, you have a moral duty to spread information that you think would help others. The problem with advertising is that it's not furthering other people's goals, but instead uses them as means to further the advertisers goals, which violates Kant's principles.

Re: Labour HQ used Facebook ads to deceive Jeremy Corbyn during election campaign

#119

Post by Lazare »

madrox wrote: post #63
hellllllllooo wrote: post #7

Wow. We've seen people microtarget leaders and CEOs with ads on Facebook to get a job. http://twicsy-blog.tumblr.com/post/174063770074/how-i-target... This is a case where microtargeting the boss hopefully cost them their job. This is completely unethical.

I don't disagree, per se, but it's interesting that we have no problem with leaders of corporations personalizing ads for individuals while we are bothered when the position is reversed.

I wouldn't say no problem, but it's a question of intent.

If a corporation microtargets an ad at me to let me know they have a product they believe I will like, that's a little creepy, but it might even be helpful. Maybe I'm in the market for a new backpack; maybe a company I've had a positive experience with before has just released a new model I might like. If they target an ad at me about their new backpack, and I buy it, that's arguably helpful for both of us...and at a minimum it's not deceptive. They're not trying to mislead me into thinking they have a backpack I might want, they're trying to ensure that I know the true fact that they have a backpack I might want. (False advertising is a legit issue, but it's also already illegal, already pretty well regulated, and not what we're talking about here.)

Similarly, an individual using ads to try and get hired is again trying to convey a specific message to a specific person using an unusual medium. The message, in this case, being "I'm cool, you should hire me", which is the same message every job applicant sends when they email their CV in. The message is fine, and the medium is merely novel; no big deal.

What we're talking about in this case is outright deception. Labour staff (allegedly) microtargeted ads to present a false perception; this is more like Uber's Greyball program than it is standard adtech. And, notably, the message wouldn't have been fine if delivered in some other medium. If Labour HQ had prepared a falsified spreadsheet of ad buys, and emailed that to Corbyn, that would be just as bad.

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