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Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

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Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#111

Post by marvin »

NizaAfrica wrote: post #69
mockingbirdy wrote: post #22

I'm seriously impressed: See the national debt of Norway (34.33% of GDP) - this is insanely low for developed countries. For comparison: US - 107.40%, Germany - 61.51% https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/norway https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/germany - - - Another important measurement is the Gini coefficient [1] which shows us if the wea…

It's because Norway is one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP– almost 4x Hong Kong and nearly twice the US. VAT here is a whopping 25%. Personal income tax rates border 55%. Corporate profits tax ranges from 28% to as high as 78% Moreover revenues from Equinor also help.

Interesting to see the measure of total tax burden vs. GDP. Never heard that variant before, during discussions where it becomes obvious it's difficult to compare the tax systems of different countries. Apparently, perhaps not surprisingly, the Nordic countries top this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#112

Post by marvin »

Applejinx wrote: post #91
marvin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did your sources distinguish Norway's Gini coefficient before and after taxes? My impression is that marginal taxation here is massive, since we have a sales tax of 25% (consumption tax, effectively), high taxes on luxury goods (cars especially), wealth tax of 0.85% of net worth every year and capital gains tax of 30% with no exemption for long-term holdings. The marginal tax rate on income is 46% IIRC, but your empl…

"wealth tax of 0.85% of net worth every year" Interesting. That's very much in line with what my experiments showed: just on a computer model of incredibly primitive 'economics', you can use an incredibly tiny wealth tax to redistributive effect. I think you can even ditch a lot of sales, income tax etc. if you're prepared to do a wealth tax. It seems to be very effective but this is the first I've heard of it actual…

See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828357 for a summary of the most important Norwegian taxes, which I posted elsewhere. Summarized as of last year.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#113

Post by dasv »

franciscop wrote: post #62
mac01021 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do European professors and universities avoid grade inflation? Are their incentives very different?

That is quite more internal so I can answer only for Spain and Industrial Engineering: yes. Professors' main incentive seem to be to make sure that those who pass are those who know what they are talking about. The main reason is that if a student screws up, people die. A more political reason is because University prestige depends partly on the knowledge of the graduading students. So if someone said they studied in…

Just to clarify, Industrial Engineering in Spain is a generalist engineering degree (mechanics/electricity and electronics/fluid mechanics/materials/etc). What the rest of the world calls "industrial engineering" is called "organization engineering" here.

The main difference between grades in Spanish engineering schools and the rest of Europe seems to be that the grade curve is heavily compressed between 4/10 and 6/10 (passing grade is 5/10). The amount of study needed to reach a passing grade would amount to an A elsewhere. As long as 25% (IIRC) of the students pass there are no consequences for the department. If less people pass, they just award a 5.0 to everyone from a certain grade up, they don't do curves. It is not unusual for people to retake a class for three or four years in a row.

There is not much guidance from professors either, no homework or extra assignments. There is just one or two midterms and a final exam, and if you're lucky there will be official course materials to study from but that is not a requirement. Most exchange students have a pretty bad time here, but on the other hand Spanish students abroad usually ace their exams with half of the work they are used to.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#114

Post by jamienicol »

Wildgoose wrote: post #64
franciscop wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Seems like a step between the US system and the Spanish system. What happens if you lose your job for example for a couple of months? Do you have to pay as a normal loan or is it more like taxes where you only pay relative to your earnings?

The payments are based on your earnings, so it is a kind of graduate tax - but only up until around retirement when any remaining amounts are cancelled. In effect, more successful English graduates subsidise everybody else (because it is supposed to be revenue neutral). And specifically English, because only English students pay the full £9,250 per year. (Scottish students pay nothing, Welsh and Northern Irish a redu…

You have a very narrow view of who's paying for whom, which is what happens when education becomes a commodity. My tuition was paid for by the Scottish government, so by the UK tax payer. Now as a higher rate tax payer I help pay for everyone else, including English students who don't earn enough to pay back their fees.

And as a resident of London, my tax will be counted as English by the books, reinforcing the idea that England subsidises Scotland. But really it was the Scottish government's progressive tuition fee policy which enabled me to go to university in the first place.

If you really want to break the UK down and pit us against eachother, then why not be honest and say that London is subsidising everyone, including the rest of England? The English aren't discriminated against, they just choose to vote for politicians who are against devolution for England, for tuition fees, and against social provision paid out of general taxation. Things would be worse without the MPs from Scotland and Wales.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#115

Post by yesforwhat »

oblio wrote: post #48
bufferoverflow wrote: post #32

Norway is a very special case. A small country with lots of oil, fish, and a small population (just 5.2 million). They would have to go really wrong to be poor.

Norway was rich on a global scale before oil.

Not by European standards

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#116

Post by dasv »

simongray wrote: post #85
Findeton wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't get paid more for getting more students, or if more students pass. Normally people go to public universities, which are pretty good, and their teachers have more or less a fixed salary. In general university costs money, both to the Government/State and the student, and thus incentives are somewhat aligned for both parties. Also, student loans are NOT a common thing here... When I was at uni, the cost of t…

> They don't get paid more for getting more students, or if more students pass. Normally people go to public universities, which are pretty good, and their teachers have more or less a fixed salary. There's no way you can generalise about incentive structures like that for an entire continent. In my country, only public universities exist and the incentive structure is decided politically. Currently, universities get…

Some professors take as a badge of honour to pass only the bare minimum of students they can get away with each year, at least in Spain. If there aren't enough passing grades to reach that legal minimum, they just give everyone from a certain grade up a 5.0.

On top of that, there are no limits on how many times you can retake a class, it is not unusual to be stuck with the same class for three or four years until you manage to pass.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#117

Post by dejv »

gaius wrote: post #59
Deestan wrote: post #9

While not as bad off as the US, we are still seeing similar trends. They still can't afford to buy apartments until their 30s if they have good jobs, while their parents bought houses at the age of 20 working as factory drones.

their parents bought houses at the age of 20 working as factory drones Drones, really? The skill of even a basic assembly line worker dwarfs that of the glorified typing that passes for most middle-class employment. But machine tool operating is often highly skilled work.

Skill is the pont, there are skilled and unskilled jobs in both white and blue collar jobs. Difference is that white collar jobs require some level of cultural sophistication.

But you are right with very skilled machinists, one of my relative makes as much as senior developers or even some CEOs by tendind lathes and similar machines. As with software development you just want to be in shops that are doing stuff with high margins.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#118

Post by soziawa »

Deestan wrote: post #9

While not as bad off as the US, we are still seeing similar trends. They still can't afford to buy apartments until their 30s if they have good jobs, while their parents bought houses at the age of 20 working as factory drones.

It almost seems like city centres are not finite. Who would have thought?

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#119

Post by maxerickson »

williamdclt wrote: post #109
maxerickson wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My intention was to contrast against "near total lack of societal support", not to state an opinion about Medicaid and CHIP.

I think that the point was that "½ of the kids in the country" sounds very low. Admittedly that's not "near total lack of societal support" but still, half of the kids are not provided with something as basic as health insurance from the gov

More than half if that is what you want to say.

In a private insurance model, ½ is a lot. I suppose it can be fun to act all astonished that the US has a private insurance model.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#120

Post by jxub »

esfandia wrote: post #86
jxub wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, I'm sure it is correlated with paying so much for a degree. When a single year can cost tens of thousands failing a subject might incentivize the student to drop out, resulting in loss of a high-paying and otherwise reliable customer. When there is no obvious reason, the purpose is always monetary in nature.

In Ontario (and probably other provinces in Canada), there is a strong financial incentive by the province to universities (in the form of tuition matching) to maintain a high retention rate.

Now that's perverse... It seems like our short-sighted vision is screwing us in realms of both finance and education.
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