Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich • Hacker News Board

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#81

Post by hycaria » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:00 AM UTC

andai wrote: post #33

Latty wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! Only if the value of a degree is having an edge over others, not if it's value is learning - primary school isn't pointless even though most people master it. This feels like it links back to the same problem as everything else - as time goes on automation removes less skilled jobs, and more and more people will need to do more ski…

The biggest obstacles to UBI aren't economic, they're cultural. I'm currently working in manual labor as I brush up on front end, and it's devastating to me that my current job and almost all jobs available to me can and will be automated. What happens then, with the majority of people who aren't suited for STEM?

You don't need a degree to care for elders or run errands for them.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#82

Post by Applejinx » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:01 AM UTC

andai wrote: post #33

Latty wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! Only if the value of a degree is having an edge over others, not if it's value is learning - primary school isn't pointless even though most people master it. This feels like it links back to the same problem as everything else - as time goes on automation removes less skilled jobs, and more and more people will need to do more ski…

The biggest obstacles to UBI aren't economic, they're cultural. I'm currently working in manual labor as I brush up on front end, and it's devastating to me that my current job and almost all jobs available to me can and will be automated. What happens then, with the majority of people who aren't suited for STEM?

Why do you think STEM can't be automated?

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#83

Post by anoplus » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:03 AM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #32

Norway is a very special case. A small country with lots of oil, fish, and a small population (just 5.2 million). They would have to go really wrong to be poor.

Another key factor is a very high level of trust in the country. As citizens put it: “I have to pay a lot of taxes, but I don’t really care, because I know that [the state] gives you so many things at the same time.”

I don't know how Norway scores so low in corruption, and how such a high level of trust among strangers, people and the government has evolved though.

I worked in Norway for a couple of months (They payed me really well as a junior). One of my first impressions was their emphasis on being honest. The first thing the manager told me is that he once hired a person who admitted being "weak" because he appreciated his honesty.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#84

Post by maxerickson » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:06 AM UTC

Avamander wrote: post #79

maxerickson wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's all sorts of subsidies and programs that only apply to kids. Maybe they aren't as big as they ought to be, but other poster has a weird conclusion going there. For instance, 35 million children get health insurance from the government: https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/program-information/medica... That's close to ½ of the kids in the country.

> That's close to ½ of the kids in the country. Um, that's a good thing?

My intention was to contrast against "near total lack of societal support", not to state an opinion about Medicaid and CHIP.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#85

Post by simongray » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:07 AM UTC

Findeton wrote: post #71

mac01021 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do European professors and universities avoid grade inflation? Are their incentives very different?

They don't get paid more for getting more students, or if more students pass. Normally people go to public universities, which are pretty good, and their teachers have more or less a fixed salary. In general university costs money, both to the Government/State and the student, and thus incentives are somewhat aligned for both parties. Also, student loans are NOT a common thing here... When I was at uni, the cost of t…

> They don't get paid more for getting more students, or if more students pass. Normally people go to public universities, which are pretty good, and their teachers have more or less a fixed salary.

There's no way you can generalise about incentive structures like that for an entire continent.

In my country, only public universities exist and the incentive structure is decided politically. Currently, universities get paid a certain amount for each student that graduates, but they are also deducted some set amount if the student doesn't graduate within a specific amount of time. In addition to that, the sum of money gained from a single STEM student is double that of another kind of student, so the universities have quite clear incentives to promote their STEM degrees.

Obviously, an incentive structure based solely on passing students must also inspire grade inflation. The current structure highly incentivises making STEM degrees easy to obtain. Whether that's actually the case, I can't say, but the structure certainly encourages it.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#86

Post by esfandia » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:07 AM UTC

jxub wrote: post #52

franciscop wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. My point is that US "score inflation" seems to be faster than in Europe. Maybe it has something to do with capitalism/socialism (pleasing the student/client), maybe with culture, maybe with language, etc. I don't know why, but it seems that way for me.

Also, I'm sure it is correlated with paying so much for a degree. When a single year can cost tens of thousands failing a subject might incentivize the student to drop out, resulting in loss of a high-paying and otherwise reliable customer. When there is no obvious reason, the purpose is always monetary in nature.

In Ontario (and probably other provinces in Canada), there is a strong financial incentive by the province to universities (in the form of tuition matching) to maintain a high retention rate.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#87

Post by psergeant » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:08 AM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #41

tikkabhuna wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [1] oddly enough I have never discussed this with british people Over recent decades tuition fees have been rising, but they've been covered by a special loan. Paying back this loan is taken out of your pay cheque (via PAYE) based on how much you earn. If you don't pay it back within a certain number of years it gets wiped. Before the last major increase it was viewed by most of my peers (I graduated in 2013) as re…

Thanks! Seems like a step between the US system and the Spanish system. What happens if you lose your job for example for a couple of months? Do you have to pay as a normal loan or is it more like taxes where you only pay relative to your earnings?

If you believe university rankings (a big if) then the UK’s universities are — on average — dramatically better than those in the rest of Europe.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#88

Post by skookumchuck » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:10 AM UTC

"Norway’s huge oil and gas sector is the clear driving factor behind the nation’s economic boom over the last three decades"

And there it is - a nation sitting on black gold is wealthy.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#89

Post by dotdi » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:10 AM UTC

I'm from the generation mentioned in this article and IMHO, in the developed countries, people like me are poorer than their parents because the rich are getting richer and the "poor", including the middle class, are getting poorer as a direct consequence.

I live in central Europe, have a STEM masters degree, my wife a bachelors degree (but is a stay at home mom) and, if we were to buy a house now, I'd be happy if I paid it off by the time I retire. I'm not living in a big city or an upscale neighborhood. That's just how it is.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#90

Post by csomar » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:11 AM UTC

Wait a second Morty

> Norway’s youth unemployment rate (among 15- to 29-year-olds) is also relatively low at 9.4% compared to an OECD average of 13.9%.

But for the USA

> Youth unemployment stood at 8.4 percent in April 2018.

Also

> People in their early thirties in Norway have an average annual disposable household income of around 460,000 kroner (around $56,200).

But remember that Norway is a small petrol country. That would not be fair and square to compare it to behemoths like the USA.

Compare Norway to the Bay Area? I can't find stats but I'm pretty sure the "average" person is getting more than $56k in SF.

So what am I trying to say:

- Don't compare small countries (smaller than big cities in population terms) to big countries.

- Don't compare oil rich countries to non-oil rich countries.

- Don't pick your stats (he compared unemployment to the OECD and not to the US). Everyone know that some European countries are going through hell now (Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc...)

- Maybe we have reached peek capacity and the younger can't do better. In these terms, Norway can still grow faster if it didn't (but I don't think that is the reason).

Anyway, it is an article for article sake. Means pretty much nothing to why we are here.