Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich • Hacker News Board

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#71

Post by Findeton » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:43 AM UTC

mac01021 wrote: post #46

franciscop wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about zero-sum (which should be similar everywhere), I'm talking about Universities becoming easier in USA much faster than in Europe. Example: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/same-p...

How do European professors and universities avoid grade inflation? Are their incentives very different?

They don't get paid more for getting more students, or if more students pass. Normally people go to public universities, which are pretty good, and their teachers have more or less a fixed salary.

In general university costs money, both to the Government/State and the student, and thus incentives are somewhat aligned for both parties. Also, student loans are NOT a common thing here... When I was at uni, the cost of the studies was about 1000€/year (500€ for me as my parents have 3 children), now it's about 2 to 3k€/year, but it's still something somewhat feasible. That's Spain, in Germany for example it's free.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#72

Post by gaius » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:43 AM UTC

Latty wrote: post #26

franciscop wrote: post #15

As a Spaniard who has discussed this in lenght with many other Europeans[1], it really seems like the US is the main country with the University debt issue. I also really believe that "score inflation" is a big issue mainly in the US. If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! [2] In Spain, Germany, France, Italy, etc if you get a degree in STEM it means you put a lot of effo…

> If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! Only if the value of a degree is having an edge over others, not if it's value is learning - primary school isn't pointless even though most people master it. This feels like it links back to the same problem as everything else - as time goes on automation removes less skilled jobs, and more and more people will need to do more ski…

Only if the value of a degree is having an edge over others, not if it's value is learning

Yes and no. If it's a political goal that x% of the population must be awarded a degree, then the standards will need to be adjusted, and below a certain point, the value of the learning goes away as well.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#73

Post by growlist » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:44 AM UTC

s3m4j wrote: post #13

viach wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think their parents got mortgages which they were paying off all their factory drone lives, not bought these houses.

Counterpoint, to take a loan you have to trust the system to both do right by you, and not collapse from under you. It might be difficult now to trust those two things.

People have been calling a property market crash here in the UK for many many years, with others making £100ks out of property over the same period. Anyone that is sage enough to call the housing market should start a private equity company and make billions.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#74

Post by earthandmoon » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:45 AM UTC

talltimtom wrote: post #56

viach wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noticed how you added "large enough" restriction? Standards are changing, today it is not enough to buy just a house, it should be "large enough".

2 adults and 2 children on 16m2 with 2 working salaries. It’s not about changing standards, it’s about families with children needing enough room to have beds for everyone and hopefully still fitting a small sofa. Back in the day, that same family would be able to have twice as big a home with one one working parent, but that was before the whole market started playing chicken to see who could put themselves most in…

I somewhat envy that time before the 70s where a family could live on one salary and have a house and car.

Today you can’t even buy a house with 2 salaries. If you are living on one salary you will be struggling and will not be credit worthy. The banks assumes a life-standard to uphold which not everyone can cope with. Even if you can live with less the bank follow it's idea of life-standard.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#75

Post by maxxxxx » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:46 AM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #17

jopsen wrote: post #11

Affordable education is probably a big part of how they do this. In northern Europe it is a clear political decision to invest in education. You'll politicians argue that we can't afford not to educate our teenagers, as it would make the welfare state unsustainable. Also, huge credit to Norway for how it handled it's olie money :)

In my not so humble opinion, it all comes down to a short- vs. farsighted culture and the resulting fundamental attitude towards kids. In the US, kids are seen at worst a nuisance and at best a personal luxury. In most of the northern/western EU, kids are seen as the future workers, decision makers and keepers of the whole economy 30 years into the future. All of the symptoms you are seeing, be it maternal / paternal…

"In the US, kids are seen at worst a nuisance and at best a personal luxury."

That's nonsense. The US is all about children. That doesn't result in long term thinking about their education or maternal/parental leave but children are not seen as a nuisance.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#76

Post by usrusr » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:47 AM UTC

sideshowb wrote: post #12

viach wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think their parents got mortgages which they were paying off all their factory drone lives, not bought these houses.

And the kids get mortgages in their 30s too presumably

Only those who either expect to stay employed in the same geographic area for the remainder of their working life (this has dropped from "almost everybody" to "hardly anybody" where I live) or who simply do not care (I presume that this has stayed constant over generations)

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#77

Post by Taniwha » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:48 AM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #20

franciscop wrote: post #15

As a Spaniard who has discussed this in lenght with many other Europeans[1], it really seems like the US is the main country with the University debt issue. I also really believe that "score inflation" is a big issue mainly in the US. If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! [2] In Spain, Germany, France, Italy, etc if you get a degree in STEM it means you put a lot of effo…

> If everyone can finish University, then having a university title becomes pointless! I mean ideally, degrees shouldn't just be a zero sum game. Ideally, it should mean everyone is better off.

unless you actually learn something there

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#78

Post by maxxxxx » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:48 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #48

bufferoverflow wrote: post #32

Norway is a very special case. A small country with lots of oil, fish, and a small population (just 5.2 million). They would have to go really wrong to be poor.

Norway was rich on a global scale before oil.

I think their oil is the one factor that makes them special in Europe. And the fact that they used the oil to benefit the country and not just a few small groups.

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#79

Post by Avamander » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:55 AM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #68

onetimemanytime wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm US might be doing it wrong, but it does spend a lot of money on children

There's all sorts of subsidies and programs that only apply to kids. Maybe they aren't as big as they ought to be, but other poster has a weird conclusion going there. For instance, 35 million children get health insurance from the government: https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/program-information/medica... That's close to ½ of the kids in the country.

> That's close to ½ of the kids in the country.

Um, that's a good thing?

Re: Unlike most millennials, Norway's are rich

#80

Post by loblollyboy » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 9:59 AM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #32

Norway is a very special case. A small country with lots of oil, fish, and a small population (just 5.2 million). They would have to go really wrong to be poor.

And fishoil. But seriously, I'm on this cruise around Scandinavia right now. All these countries are incredible. And not all of them are so blessed with resources. Then you get African and South American countries with similar resource:population and they're f-u-c-k-*-d. I think it is very much about the culture and that is at the household and governmental level.