Isn't a key part of openpilot, the vision related code, still closed source?
George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
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Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
#42Brilliant! Pure AI is a dead end street. Turing machines cannot increase their minimal Kolmogorov sufficient statistic, so will always be unable to learn more information than is put into them originally. Humans are the only known information creators, and so only hybrid human/AI systems can work in the real world.
>Humans are the only known information creators
What do you think whale-sounds and bird-songs are?
Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I meant waymo because they have a less commercial approach compared to Tesla (which might taint this engineer view [or not]) I believe the only way out of the security pit is to double down on rigorous physics and not rapid ML
One example that I like to give is a downed power line . This is something that happens often . Try solving it with rigorous physics.
A purely physical approach is just a design paradigm in how to use other sensors (with or without ML), having this means uncertainty would be correlated with momentum and anything causing doubt (a power line down) would mean reducing the internal energy of the system to give ability to either stop to a halt, enter a safe configuration or assess the situation deeper/differently to decide.
So far what we see about Tesla and the likes is that they jumped early on the ML fad as very naive feedback loops on basic car controls (estimate lanes -> center the car. estimate obstacle distance -> adapt speed). It's not physics first.
Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I meant waymo because they have a less commercial approach compared to Tesla (which might taint this engineer view [or not]) I believe the only way out of the security pit is to double down on rigorous physics and not rapid ML
One example that I like to give is a downed power line . This is something that happens often . Try solving it with rigorous physics.
Well, usually driving over one with rubber tires causes no problem. One in the air would be detectable, no?
Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
#45This guy is all talk and represents one problem with Silicon Valley. There are a lot of people now who can talk the talk and get the attention needed to get money but with no ability to deliver. Stop giving him attention until he actually shows something that matches even a little bit of what he is promising. People who know what they're doing technically are deeply aware of the issues with their technology. Anyone i…
You are aware we are giving away open source software that will control your car, right? It's online today! And it's on par with the best systems money can buy, Tesla Autopilot and GM Super Cruise. https://github.com/commaai/openpilot No ability to deliver?
It is an impressive hack. But you are not building something that is useful. Build a small component that follows safety standards - this will be useful.
Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
#46What would the point of current self-driving car systems be? If you can't take your attention off the road anyway, it's basically a glorified, expensive cruise control.
> What would the point of current self-driving car systems be? You’re teaching the AI in Tesla’s case. Theoretically, your drive is safer with driver augmentation safety systems in other manufacturers’ vehicles, even if they’re not contributing data back for algo refinement.
We are training our AI using user data as well.
https://medium.com/@comma_ai/the-half-way-point-55662cef04f2
Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are aware we are giving away open source software that will control your car, right? It's online today! And it's on par with the best systems money can buy, Tesla Autopilot and GM Super Cruise. https://github.com/commaai/openpilot No ability to deliver?
It is an impressive hack. But you are not building something that is useful. Build a small component that follows safety standards - this will be useful.
Ask our users if they feel similarly about it not being useful. https://slack.comma.ai
Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is an impressive hack. But you are not building something that is useful. Build a small component that follows safety standards - this will be useful.
Ask our users if they feel similarly about it not being useful. https://slack.comma.ai
Yes, I understand that. And my perspective is different from your users. It is that of someone who is seeing (and attempting to help) big automotive companies. Companies in the shadow of Waymo, that had recently reached $135B valuation. It is also that of someone, who had been hacking code for medical equipment at 13, some 25 years back.
Do as you wish.
edit: correction. out of your project we are probably having more hackers that understand at least some aspect of the problem - you still might be doing something very useful.
Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
#49Sour grapes? I recall when push button elevators were installed. The union insisted an operator was still needed - who asked you 'what floor?' and then pushed that button. Without operators, western, and indeed all global civilization would come to an end...
> I recall when push button elevators were installed.
The designs for some of the first push button elevator circuitry was really cool tech.
It was a complicated problem because elevators could appear and disappear in a given building at will. Some would appear and operate within a building for only a few minutes. Otherwise could leave seconds after they arrived without signaling their departure. The circuitry had to account for this unreliability within the "network" of all possible elevators within a given city block.
The circuity in each elevator car also had to handle collision avoidance as new elevators appeared within the same shaft as other elevator cars that were already moving in that shaft.
It's fascinating to look at the designs:
www.archive.org/apples-and-oranges.html
Self-driving cars seem like a cake walk by comparison.
Re: George Hotz is on a hacker crusade against the ‘scam’ of self-driving cars
#50Sour grapes? I recall when push button elevators were installed. The union insisted an operator was still needed - who asked you 'what floor?' and then pushed that button. Without operators, western, and indeed all global civilization would come to an end...
> I recall when push button elevators were installed. The designs for some of the first push button elevator circuitry was really cool tech. It was a complicated problem because elevators could appear and disappear in a given building at will. Some would appear and operate within a building for only a few minutes. Otherwise could leave seconds after they arrived without signaling their departure. The circuitry had to…
Elevators gaining sentience is a little to Hitchiker's Guide to me. Would be frightening.