“I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL” • Hacker News Board

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#701

Post by comesee » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #691

v_lisivka wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dang, you are not listening to user problems. I was moderator for more than 10 years on linux.org.ua and nobody told me that I was bad moderator. I also regular user on other forums/sites, so I have view on the problem from both sides. HN is badly moderated. However, most problems with moderation/flames/etc., can be fixed using technology or by writing better rules. If you are interesting in fixing of HN problems, co…

Happy to listen to user opinions and do so every day, but when someone has a history of not following the site rules, as you do, their complaints become less compelling. This can be fixed by reading https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the spirit of this site to heart, and using at as intended from now on.

"taking the spirit of the site to heart, and using the site as intended" is abstract and its interpretation is subject to your whims. It doesn't actually mean anything for anyone else, no matter how many times it's repeated, no matter how many people nod in agreement.

Just because something is written down doesn't make it a sufficiently specific, objective, and fair law. You want to talk about a legalistic gambit, well how about a pseudo law that essentially gives you mileage to moderate the site however you see fit? That's what I'm seeing here by your refusal to be specific and you chanting "spirit of the site."

The situation as I see it is that nearly all conformity to your laws is incidental, not intentional. Those who are unlucky enough to not naturally conform to your arbitrary standards aren't given the proper tools to conform (as evidenced here), and simply have to hope that they won't violate the "spirit of the site" again (the best way being through self-censorship).

This site claims to value intellectual curiosity but it seems the values of the site are off limits to curiosity.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#702

Post by HeavyStorm » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 3:40 PM UTC

tripzilch wrote: post #696

reirob wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is the reason that the certain other BDFL is still in service? Maybe it's part of psycho-hygiene in order to be able to continue? I sincerely don't know - your question just triggered my experience when working in psychiatry and seeing how the staff was venting, talking and joking about patients - once the doors were closed. I was very shocked, was quite young, around 20 when serving - but one of the docto…

> one of the doctors, when she saw my shock, took me apart and explained that this behaviour, so shocking it might be when seeing it for the first time, is part of psycho-hygiene that allows the people to be able to continue to work Did you consider that her taking you apart and explaining it away with that excuse is just as much part of her "psycho-hygiene" that allows her to joke about the suffering and mental well…

> are many ways to handle pressure etc, and the ones that do not require you to occasionally "explode at someone", are in fact healthier and better for one's mental well-being

For instance, taking a vacation. How many times has Guido stepped away from the position and letting whatever "vice" he had make the decisions for a while?

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#703

Post by antpls » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 3:57 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #693

antpls wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care about pg tho

The point is simply that he set the pattern for this site.

Things have to change at some point, that's why Guido is taking a permanent vacation.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#704

Post by doc_gunthrop » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

sebcat wrote: post #665

enriquto wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but for me, Lua is just far more elegant, It's curious... Lua is my favorite language due to its elegance, but I would love it even more if it used significant indentation (using tabs, of course) instead of "end" blocks.

OTOH, I would love Python even more if I could do: x = function(x) return x*x end and not use those awful Python lambdas... Not that it really matters though, bridges still get built.

    x = lambda x: x*x

It doesn't look that bad in comparison...

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#705

Post by antpls » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #580

antpls wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people on Internet are reconsidering a second vote for the Brexit, while that PEP didn't even have a vote at all, given it was a dictatorship so far. Guido wrote the principles of Python, the principles should outlive his reign. :-)

> Some people on Internet are reconsidering a second vote for the Brexit That really isn't a fair comparison. This is about one person, not two opposing groups.

What I meant is, even if democracy isn't perfect (see the Brexit case), a form of democracy maybe a better system in some situation than the dictatorship of one person.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#706

Post by Dirlewanger » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

mindfulplay wrote: post #627

gsich wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider: It's fun.

Software construction shouldn't need this level of drama or comedy. It almost feels like hero worship.

Open source projects needs someone to bring down the hammer and have final words, or else it will slowly descend into bikeshedding hell where nothing gets done. I fear for the future of Python.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#707

Post by gkya » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #670

IgorPartola wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t know why you are being downvoted. Linus’s tirades and diatribes are famous for how brutally personal they get. I still maintain that they are a waste of time and he would be a more effective leader if he limited his responses to “this is a bad idea” or “this isn’t done right” instead of writing pages long personal attacks on other members of the project.

> if he limited his responses to “this is a bad idea” or “this isn’t done right” And then people keep wasting his time insisting on a bad idea Cultural differences and all that. A good 'perkele' will be enough to get the point across in most cultures, even if some leave a bit disappointed.

It is easy to filter such people out. Especially if it is email the sole medium of contact.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#708

Post by gkya » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #706

mindfulplay wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software construction shouldn't need this level of drama or comedy. It almost feels like hero worship.

Open source projects needs someone to bring down the hammer and have final words, or else it will slowly descend into bikeshedding hell where nothing gets done. I fear for the future of Python.

What you say is totally different from and possible without insults.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#709

Post by justin66 » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

fpgaminer wrote: post #198

vxNsr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

O_o I wonder how many times I've spoken to someone and didn't realize who it was/how important they were because of the anonymity of the internet.

When I was much younger I started building a ray casting engine. I was having trouble wrapping my brain around how to render the floors so ... I emailed Ken Silverman. It escapes me now _why_ I emailed him. I certainly had no idea the gravity of who he was (for those also unaware, he is perhaps most famous for creating the Build engine used in games like Duke Nukem 3D). I believe I was under the false assumption at t…

> Ken, if you ever stumble on this comment, thank you!

His email address takes a very short time to find and he's on Facebook. Just a suggestion: why not send a note and thank him for real? You might make his afternoon a little brighter.

(I'm awful about thank you notes and if you knew me you'd be within your rights to call me a hypocrite, but still!)

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#710

Post by setgree » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

_1100 wrote: post #613

setgree wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person who understands and writes extremely well about this dynamic is Eliezer Yudkowsky. From the incomparable Harry potter and the Methods of Rationality : [0] ""I was going to be a hero, once," said Professor Quirrell, still looking upward. "Can you believe that, Miss Granger?" "No." "Thank you again, Miss Granger. It is true nonetheless... I was not naive, Miss Granger, I did not expect the power-holders to a…

I grok. I have neither read this, nor have I read any Harry Potter (much to the chagrin of many of my friends, I'm sorry, I've tried). This sums up a fairly universal behavior that I think we all tend to take part in, and also see others taking part in when we all spot a problem but don't take action because we have the luxury (i.e. removed from any real chance of harm) to watch the problem be solved by anybody else.…

IMO HPMOR is a rich reading experience with nothing besides familiarity with Harry Potter as a cultural phenomenon (i.e. you know that they are wizards and they go to wizard school). It really picks up about 60 chapters in though, and that's a lot to ask someone to get through.