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The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

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Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#391

Post by Symbiote »

beaconstudios wrote: post #210
tombert wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. When I suggested putting on a low-budget 50's monster movie on as background noise (e.g. Gamera, Godzilla, The Giant Claw, something that's amusing to look at for thirty seconds, laugh a bit, but not overly distracting), people act almost offended that I would waste company time like that. But if the TV has some form of ball on it, drop everything.

the important people in the office both get to dictate what's allowed, and are in my experience more likely to be extroverted/sports-watchy types. Thus they exploit their position to watch sports with the other important people and who cares what the nerds think/want.

Last time (perhaps the previous football World Cup?) my manager simply said I could go home once the game started, as no-one else was going to do any work so that was fair.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#392

Post by loco5niner »

sushid wrote: post #360
dazc wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'It also made my tinnitus worse.' I've found any earplug or headphone option will make my tinnitus worse - sometimes days afterwards. I explain my tinnitus to non-sufferers as being on the threshold of noise intolerance 24/7. I'm surprised there hasn't been a lawsuit against any of these companies that expect employees to damage their health just so they can save on floorspace?

I've also wondered about that. I didn't feel like I had tinnitus (I have a very mild one) until after I moved my apartment to a noisier street and wore earplugs for about 2 weeks. Now I have a very faint one that "toggles" once or twice a week and ALWAYS when I wear earplugs.

Same here! I had very faint tinnitus (from headphones in the office all day), but after we moved offices (open office space) and I started wearing earplugs UNDER my hearing protection earmuffs, my tinnitus started going wild.

I think it's because when you double-stuff like I did, the only thing you can hear at that point is the ringing in your ears (and high heels on concrete floors). My brain seemed to lock in on the ringing at that point.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#393

Post by Mistredo »

eikenberry wrote: post #383
Joeri wrote: post #382

I’ve built software for the facilities industry so could see the move to open offices from the inside. The single most important motivation for open offices is cost. The facilities department inside almost every company is viewed as a cost, and managers of departments viewed as a cost have only one way to make a bonus: cut costs. Most of the facilities costs are a multiple of the square meters (rent, cleaning, heatin…

If this is the case it would indicate an eventual move toward mostly remote positions. With remote work the company gets the productivity advantages of private offices while having near 0 cost for facilities.

There will be explanation for that. Something like that managers are afraid people would slack, or they feel they would be redundant, because people wouldn't need their supervising.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#394

Post by Mistredo »

hitekker wrote: post #371
mikelevins wrote: post #346

The best office environment I was ever in, in 30 years of working in software development, was on Apple's Newton team in the Bubb Road building in Cupertino. Everyone in the building I was in had a private office with floor-to-ceiling exterior windows and a door that closed. Groups of offices shared a larger open common room with sofas and comfy chairs and coffee tables conveniently arranged for sitting around talkin…

Hate to be that guy, but didn’t the newton product fail? Or at least fail in the direct sense of the word, and not “inspired something actually successful”.

It did, but it does not make his argument less valid.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#395

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

thfuran wrote: post #312
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “If we got tight for space, it would absolutely make sense to give away my space to someone who would use it more and have me just grab an open chair for those times I have meetings or other reasons to be in the office.” Why would this make more sense than moving to a bigger office or building more space for the new employee to have a desk without taking yours? Cost is absolutely not an answer.

Why is cost not an answer?

Because the costs involved are tiny compared to lost productivity based on developer salaries and, more obviously, because these same companies spend millions on coffee stations, roof decks, alcohol-focused parties, etc.

People who think cost drives open plan office choices seem to think corporate management are too stupid to ask, what is 10% of our total salary base for these workers. It makes no sense. People have been measuring productivity and morale in knowledge work for a hundred years. Of course they can directly compare cost savings on floor space with metrics correlated with productivity lost to worse workspace, and tie it to the bottom line.

The observable spending habits of companies suggest cost utterly cannot be a driving factor here.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#396

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

RandallBrown wrote: post #353
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “I have worked in multiple open offices where people didn't want harsh fluorescent light and they worked with the team/facilities/whoever to get the lights dimmed/removed/changed to be more compatible with what people wanted.” I’ve never seen an open-plan office where this would be possible, do you have any links? In the open plan offices I’ve worked in, the overhead lighting could not be dimmed, and it would not b…

I don't have any links, but most office buildings I've encountered let you turn off sections of lights. For more granular control we've simply removed the lightbulbs. (Sometimes to the chagrin of the facilities people) If lights from far away are a problem I don't have a very good solution beyond hanging a flag or something from the ceiling to try and block the light.

Removing individual lightbulbs or hanging flags as light barriers ... I hope you are seeing that your original suggestion is deeply unrealistic.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#397

Post by loco5niner »

RandallBrown wrote: post #320
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? The nature of needing to customize your space is fundamentally incompatible with sitting in a large open plan space. How could you “set [your] stuff up” in an open plan area? For example, suppose there is harsh overhead fluorescent lighting above your desk. But you require soft lighting from a desk lamp for eye comfort. In a private office, you can bring in a lamp. If you bring in a lamp to your ope…

Lighting is certainly trickier, but if it's that big of a deal, work with the people around you and/or your manager to move to a darker part of the office where you can set up your own lighting. I have worked in multiple open offices where people didn't want harsh fluorescent light and they worked with the team/facilities/whoever to get the lights dimmed/removed/changed to be more compatible with what people wanted.

I've only worked in a couple of open offices, and management was not willing or able to make those adjustments in either case. Wish it was different.

I believe your comment is overly optimistic in most cases.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#398

Post by mynameishere »

eqdw wrote: post #269

At a previous office we did a survey regarding our open office space. The answers were extremely polarized, with about half the office loving them and half the office hating them. The separation was pretty clean: people whose jobs involved focusing for extended periods of time hated it. People whose jobs were mundane/mindless/entry level, people whose jobs involved multitasking across a lot of things, and people whos…

This is an old thread, but to square your circle, the lower level employees probably knew that any upgrade wouldn't benefit them, so they "loved" the open office that everyone else was stuck with.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#399

Post by loco5niner »

HelloNurse wrote: post #263
collinf wrote: post #19

My biggest issue with my open floor office is that it seems like everyone just takes calls at their seats. We have private spaces and enclaves for that, but I am just bombarded with 4 people within 10 feet of my workspace on their phone. To counteract I throw on some Ambient music on my headphones, which sort of works but I still find I prefer to work in silence. Does it not seem like open-office etiquette to take a…

If I take or make a phone call, it must be in a place where my computer, my notes and my phone are located. This means the open office, regardless of how much I disturb my audience.

Yikes. I wouldn't want to work with you.

I think your comment is ironic considering your previous comment:

>but there are plenty of idiots who turn off air conditioning, open the windows or pull up curtains regardless of everyone else's comfort.

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