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“I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

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Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#161

Post by bluecalm »

sametmax wrote: post #93

It's going to be very interesting to see if things like: - pattern matching - inline exception catching - path inclusion in the built in - more functional tooling - lazy keywors That were BDFL-blocked, will go back to be debated in the mailing list in the next months. And if yes, will the community stands by its root or create a new era ? The consequences of which we will only really see in 10 years. Guido as done an…

I think he made a right call blocking all of those. There are Pythonic ways to do all of those already and the mantra there should be one and preferably one way of doing things is important for the philosophy of the language.

With PEP 572 it wasn't like that. There wasn't a Pythonic way to do list comprehensions which used the same expensive to evaluate expression two times in it and it was I think the only glaring syntax weakness in comparison to languages which have a way to do that (like WHERE keyword in Haskell).

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#162

Post by swyx »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #58
whalesalad wrote: post #14

Yikes. Python has become so hugely popular and is used for so many different use cases that I fear the ecosystem is going to really struggle to find consistency and direction without a dictator.

Maybe we'll try something like a triumvirate? As best I can tell there are basically three areas where Python is dominant: web, data science, and academia. A single leader for each of those spheres could form a council where BDFL-level decisions could be made by fiat. Each community could then form whatever organization they felt necessary to choose who to send to the triumvirate. As as check on the power of the triu…

you're missing a body that can decide in case of implementation disputes over the other two. we could even compare it to a court. since python is so huge, we would have several levels for triaging and appeals. and the top one would reign supreme.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#163

Post by simonh »

symmitchry wrote: post #20
bla2 wrote: post #5

> I don't ever want to have to fight so hard for a PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions. Leading a large open source project must be terrible in this age of constant outrage :-(

I'm a little confused though, by his feelings here. Why did he feel the need to "fight so hard for a PEP" if it was so controversial, and everyone was outraged? I do understand people's points about "the age of outrage" and "internet 2018" but still: the PEP wasn't generally accepted as being a fantastic improvement, so why did he feel the need to fight so hard for it?

If 'everyone' was outraged, it wouldn't have been controversial, right? I'd argue that one person against _everyone_ else isn't a controversy, but in any case at the end of the day the PEP was accepted in a democratic poll.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#164

Post by draw_down »

bla2 wrote: post #5

> I don't ever want to have to fight so hard for a PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions. Leading a large open source project must be terrible in this age of constant outrage :-(

I say if you go around calling yourself Benevolent Dictator for Life, you're kinda signing up for that. Not that I think it's justified for people to act in certain ways, but I don't think you should find it very surprising if you appoint yourself DFL, B or otherwise.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#165

Post by swyx »

cbhl wrote: post #74
whalesalad wrote: post #14

Yikes. Python has become so hugely popular and is used for so many different use cases that I fear the ecosystem is going to really struggle to find consistency and direction without a dictator.

Guido is only human. And one day, he will die. (Hopefully a long, long time from now.) Guido is not asking Python to live without a dictator. Guido is asking Python to learn how to live without Guido, so that Python may outlive him. This is a tale as old as time. Apple lives on with only memories of Steve Jobs. The United States lives on with only memories George Washington. For some inspiration I'd recommend listeni…

He's going to sit under his own vine and fig tree :)

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#166

Post by blattimwind »

romanows wrote: post #132
pvg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a particularly ill-chosen thread to deliberately try to re-flame this flamewar. Most threads are.

Heaven forbid that someone responds to a point made in another post. On a public internet discussion forum. In a discussion about the context and effects of divisive and difficult decisions. /s

Python 3 breakage is basically flamebait by now.

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#167

Post by TimTheTinker »

swyx wrote: post #153
freehunter wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I've gotten into heated arguments on here or on Reddit with very well-known figures in the tech world without realizing who they are until after the fact. Luckily I don't think I've every argued with a developer about their own product before... that I know of.

i have a great solution: speak to everyone like they are a human being with feelings :)

* slow clap *

“A word aptly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver.” —Proverbs

Re: “I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

#170

Post by woah »

jcelerier wrote: post #67
Waterluvian wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that having strong opinions on how others should be developing software is how communities become toxic like this. "Shooting yourself in the foot is your fault for not using a linter that detects accidental misuse of assignment!"

> I think that having strong opinions on how others should be developing software is how communities become toxic like this. Depends on what you think the answer to "is programming an art or a science" is. People who build bridges are absolutely subject to "strong opinions" on how to build bridges. I am of the opinion that shipping software to others when under a contract without using all the facilities available to…

Thinking that linting and static typing will stop all errors is foolish (although I prefer both, myself). Cargo culting "best practices" is often useless, and is sometimes used as a crutch by developers who are bad at the much more important and much less quantifiable things, like code readability and architectural simplicity.

Wanting your pet coding preferences to be enforced by criminal law is a sadomasochistic fantasy.

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