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A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

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Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#181

Post by npi »

I'm not sure why all of the furor exists over a group of commercial properties doing this. The reality is that there are so many entities collecting this same information at so many places, and selling it to private parties, and keeping historical records for years - that there's not a good way to unring this bell. We just happened to find out about this one and the media is highlighting that ICE purchases the data.

Scores of police departments and other government agencies run ALPR cameras, and share the results with Vigilant and other companies so that they can have access to all of the results that Vigilant holds. Philadelphia PD even ran unmarked vehicles with ALPR equipment bearing a Google Maps logo a few years back.[1]

Repo companies and others are sending out drivers in vehicles with ALPR cameras who patrol mall parking lots, apartment complexes, etc and then upload all of that data to one of several companies including Vigilant. These folks can scan 15,000 plates a day without a lot of effort.

Homeowner associations and apartment complexes (or their security companies) also frequently have these ALPR cameras along the paths of ingress or egress.

Universities are using ALPR for parking enforcement (and then selling the data to companies.)

[1]https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kb77dm/philly-pol...

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#182

Post by hanshan »

s_kilk wrote: post #158
hanshan wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The internet would not exist without advertising"

Utterly wrong. The Internet wouldn't exist without gigantic state funding. The early Internet was completely free of commercial influence.

In case you didn't realize, my comment and the parent's comment are satirical.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#183

Post by dang »

User23 wrote: post #106
GVIrish wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me one instance in the US judicial system where children are forcibly taken from parents and shipped off to detention centers in other states when the parent has been charged with a misdemeanor. Bottom line is that it is. Not. Done. And it clearly is appropriate to 'think of the children' when cruelty is being purposefully inflicted on children as official government policy. There's no rational defense for that…

Actually it's done to US citizens routinely. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/us/family-separation-amer... . And before you quibble, recall that jail is for misdemeanors. Again, your reasoning faculty has been overwhelmed by effective rhetoric. Take a deep breath, step back, and start using your left hemisphere.

Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please don't do that again, and please don't post flamewar-style comments at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: we already had to warn you about this recently. If you want to keep posting on HN, please read the guidelines and follow them from now on.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#184

Post by dang »

GVIrish wrote: post #172
User23 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it's done to US citizens routinely. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/us/family-separation-amer... . And before you quibble, recall that jail is for misdemeanors. Again, your reasoning faculty has been overwhelmed by effective rhetoric. Take a deep breath, step back, and start using your left hemisphere.

You failed to read and/or comprehend what I said. Show me an example where children are forcibly separated and shipped to detention centers in different states when a parent is charged with a misdemeanor. I already pointed out that children are only taken away in cases of neglect or abuse. But if you must continue patting yourself on the back for how 'rational' you are while you can't provide any rational basis for y…

Personal attacks aren't allowed on HN, even if someone else did it first. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. And for heaven's sake (or at least HN's), could you please just avoid flamewars?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#185

Post by iosDrone »

zardgiv wrote: post #156
dahdum wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't arguing that. Just that illegal entry is not the same as a speeding ticket was my point. Overstaying on legal entry is civil, and just unlawful presence. I believe that's a bit less than half the population.

Unlawful presence is 100% of the offenses you'll be able to catch in a Sunnyvale mall parking lot, and it disproves the OPs contention that they are all "criminal, by definition."

You can use ALPR to track people who are known to have entered illegally or who have been sentenced to deportation and are avoiding their sentence. Illegal aliens are criminals.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#186

Post by pluto9 »

matte_black wrote: post #18
OceanKing wrote: post #16

This article takes a distinctly negative tone towards this practice. What’s the problem here? License plate data is public information, it’s the same as if a person standing on the street saw your plate and told someone else. There should not be any expectation of privacy in regard to one’s license plate or the location of its sighting.

The trigger here is ICE. For many people in this country, anything ICE does is bad now.

Opposing datapoint here: I approve of ICE's mission, but think large-scale surveillance is an unethical implementation of it.

Modern criminal law in the West is built on the presumption of innocence. Invading the privacy of many people who are practically guaranteed to be innocent for the sake of finding one criminal that may be hiding among them is directly contrary to that.

It is not wrong for the NSA to try to find terrorists, but it is wrong for them to sift through my text messages "just in case" when they have no reason to believe I'm involved in terrorism. It is not wrong for police to enforce laws, but it is wrong for them to stop you and search your car without any reason to believe you've committed a crime. It is not wrong for ICE to secure our borders, but it is wrong for them to track the movements of millions of everyday people lest they find that one has a pattern of movement that may suggest people smuggling.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#187

Post by pluto9 »

matte_black wrote: post #144
mikeash wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not reporting criminals, they’re reporting everyone . This has nothing to do with open borders. Why would you even bring that up?

When everyone is reported, no one is. When everyone is tracked, no one is.

This may have been true once, but no more. In the age of automation, when everyone is tracked, everyone is.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#188

Post by zardgiv »

iosDrone wrote: post #185
zardgiv wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlawful presence is 100% of the offenses you'll be able to catch in a Sunnyvale mall parking lot, and it disproves the OPs contention that they are all "criminal, by definition."

You can use ALPR to track people who are known to have entered illegally or who have been sentenced to deportation and are avoiding their sentence. Illegal aliens are criminals.

I really don't think you understand the difference between unlawful presence and improper entry. One of these is a crime while the other is not. Restating your false premise at the end doesn't make it more true; unlawful presence in the U.S. is not a crime, that's a simple fact.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#189

Post by iosDrone »

zardgiv wrote: post #188
iosDrone wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use ALPR to track people who are known to have entered illegally or who have been sentenced to deportation and are avoiding their sentence. Illegal aliens are criminals.

I really don't think you understand the difference between unlawful presence and improper entry. One of these is a crime while the other is not. Restating your false premise at the end doesn't make it more true; unlawful presence in the U.S. is not a crime, that's a simple fact.

Crossing the border without a visa is a crime. You do not understand US law.

Re: A California mall operator is sharing license plate tracking data with ICE

#190

Post by zardgiv »

iosDrone wrote: post #189
zardgiv wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think you understand the difference between unlawful presence and improper entry. One of these is a crime while the other is not. Restating your false premise at the end doesn't make it more true; unlawful presence in the U.S. is not a crime, that's a simple fact.

Crossing the border without a visa is a crime. You do not understand US law.

You're missing the point. No one will be caught entering the U.S., with or without a visa, in a Sunnyvale mall parking lot. All you will likely be able to catch is unlawful presence, which is a civil matter and not a crime.
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