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Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

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Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#61

Post by [deleted] »

themagician wrote: post #54
sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

China is a collectivist society. Their ideas of property rights and intellectual property are fundamentally different. There is “the” answer, not “your” answer. It seems weird to us but it’s worked well for them. And while our system might seem better, or at the very least “normal” it certainly has its flaws (i.e. patent trolling). There is probably some middle ground we could come to in the future but the US is comp…

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#62

Post by biocomputation »

sjroot wrote: post #33
biocomputation wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who can, do, and people who can't, cheat. It's the way of the world, and not isolated to any particular ethic group, social class, or otherwise.

That might be true, but I think it is occurring disproportionally amongst Chinese students (and perhaps as a result, Chinese engineers).

I'm not doubting that some Chinese students cheat. Maybe it's even higher than the proportion of students in other ethnic groups who cheat.

I'm simply saying that it shouldn't be framed as a problem with Chinese culture because it is a problem in all human cultures. That's all.

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#63

Post by rtpg »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #18
sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

It’s funny how afraid people are about tiptoeing around this issue. Cheating among chinese students is widespread and blatant, and they do not even pretend to care. They are completely shameless about it. Everyone with Chinese students knows it, but it’s politically incorrect to call it out. Which they are also aware of, and take advantage of.

You think chinese exchange students invented cheating on uni exams/copying people's homework? Man, you haven't watched enough teen movies about getting through school

And everyone talks about it! Why else would we, on an article about _industrial espionage_, get to uni students copying homework?

Acting like this is some sort of chinese predilection instead of a thing that happens all the time everywhere is not intellectually honest.

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#64

Post by walkadder »

themagician wrote: post #54
sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

China is a collectivist society. Their ideas of property rights and intellectual property are fundamentally different. There is “the” answer, not “your” answer. It seems weird to us but it’s worked well for them. And while our system might seem better, or at the very least “normal” it certainly has its flaws (i.e. patent trolling). There is probably some middle ground we could come to in the future but the US is comp…

This is really strange and has no bearing on reality. Are you trying to make a joke?

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#65

Post by [deleted] »

themagician wrote: post #54
sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

China is a collectivist society. Their ideas of property rights and intellectual property are fundamentally different. There is “the” answer, not “your” answer. It seems weird to us but it’s worked well for them. And while our system might seem better, or at the very least “normal” it certainly has its flaws (i.e. patent trolling). There is probably some middle ground we could come to in the future but the US is comp…

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#66

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pvg wrote: post #24
sjroot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stealing of ideas can be applied to legal intellectual property or academic assignments.

Not really. People don't get tossed out of school for plagiarism because they're violating someone's copyright. In fact, you don't need the notion of intellectual property at all to have the independent notion of academic integrity - one is significantly older than the other.

My high school calculus teacher put a copyright on his exams. He didn’t need to—copyrights are implicit. But it communicated the point.

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#67

Post by reaperducer »

sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

>I would venture to say that there is a cultural disconnect with the Chinese when it comes to the idea of intellectual property.

Back when I did business in Asia, we had a cultural training session before our group went over. We were told that in certain Asian nations, especially China but to a lesser extent South Korea and Thailand, the concept of copying someone else's work or intellectual property as a bad thing is foreign. Instead, the cultural feeling is that copying someone else's work is a subtle way of honoring them and their work.

Our consultants said that South Korea was growing out of this phase in its development, the way Japan did decades earlier. In both nations because the growth of home-grown ideas gave intellectual property cultural worth.

Perhaps over the next 30 years, China will also learn to respect other people's property as it develops into a modern industrial power.

This was a couple of decades ago, though. Things might be different now.

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#68

Post by sjroot »

biocomputation wrote: post #62
sjroot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be true, but I think it is occurring disproportionally amongst Chinese students (and perhaps as a result, Chinese engineers).

I'm not doubting that some Chinese students cheat. Maybe it's even higher than the proportion of students in other ethnic groups who cheat. I'm simply saying that it shouldn't be framed as a problem with Chinese culture because it is a problem in all human cultures. That's all.

That we can agree on!

Re: Ex-Apple Employee Stole Secrets for Chinese Firm, U.S. Says

#69

Post by dawhizkid »

sjroot wrote: post #11

Disclaimer: I am speaking from personal experiences and know that, despite these experiences, there are tons of Chinese engineers who work their ass off and maintain great professional integrity. That said...my experience with Chinese graduate students has been incredibly disappointing. While they made up the majority of our graduate computer science program, most had no respect for academic conduct guidelines. I exp…

Chinese engineers also play the tech company referral game very well. My team went from having one Chinese engineer to being almost completely Chinese in less than a year. All through referrals that started with one.
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