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Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

theguardian.com

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Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#271

Post by codeulike »

dekhn wrote: post #135
the_spacebyte wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what did you do to help? He was asked if he could do anything and tried.

I didn't do anything to help- I don't think saving 12 people in a Thailand cave means a lot, globally speaking. Why do you say he was asked to do something? He offered to help. More realistically, however, he should have chosen to stay out of the way- he didn't get his device to the site until the rescue operation was already half completed. It wouldn't have worked anyway- it wasn't fit for the purpose. Getting a bun…

Tweet from Elon Musk in response to BBC article:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1016684366083190785

It shows correspondance with one of the dive team, urging Musk to continue with the sub.

Other teams from other organisations were also working on similar things: https://twitter.com/Jiradett/status/1016690284619599873

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#272

Post by merpnderp »

I do my part in promoting captialism, which has done more to pull children out of poverty than any other program or charity in the world. Free market reforms in China and India have done just brain blistering amounts of good in reducing human suffering, from child malnutrition, suicide rates, longevity, and access to healthcare.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#273

Post by ictoan »

astura wrote: post #186
sametmax wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He also helped them by teaching them meditation, so as not to focus on their hunger. Learning meditation is hard. Learning meditation when you are scared, hungry and in such a bad situation is extra hard. So if the guy pulled it off with 12 terrorized famished kids for 9 days, he deserves his own temple.

Well, he was a former monk.

He was sent to a monastery when he was 12 and stayed for 10 years.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#274

Post by mancerayder »

mancerayder wrote: post #256

It's very odd that this somehow made it to all the media headlines. Sure, a happy ending and so forth, but in a world of ~7.5B, including indescribable tragedies on a daily basis, it makes you wonder how they knew the daily drama would lead to such ad dollars.

I suppose it's not a global headline and discussion point unless Silicon Valley finds a way to market itself and its technical prowess in a Musk. To wit:

"At least 155 people have died in floods and landslides triggered by torrential rain in western Japan, says the government.

It is the highest death toll caused by rainfall that Japan has seen in more than three decades.

Rescuers are now digging through mud and rubble in a race to find survivors, as dozens are still missing.

About two million people have been evacuated from the region after rivers burst their banks."

(BBC, "Japan floods: 155 killed after torrential rain and landslides", 10 Jul 2018)

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#275

Post by flexie »

cm2187 wrote: post #212
flexie wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling for prison without knowing much is very harsh. We don't know if the coach led them in or if he just followed them. We don't know how far in they went initially. Maybe they just went a bit inside the cave and then increasing water levels forced them further in. At least he stayed with the boys. Imagine if no adult had been there. Blaming the coach for the death of the rescue diver is completely uncalled for. T…

Agree, but I wonder if he even checked the weather forecast before getting into a cave. Which even for a complete amateur like me seems to be the most basic precaution (along with notifying someone that I am going there).

I hindsight those would be right things to do.

But again: Maybe the kids went in there and the coach just followed with them. We assume that he was in charge, but we don't know. We don't know if he encouraged them to go in, or whether he tried to talk them out of it or something in between. If he encouraged them to go in, we don't know if he thought they would just enter the opening of the caves.

Some reports say that kids in that area regularly go to the caves. Maybe that's just what you do around there, like kids in America hanging out at a parking lot (which probably kills more kids annually) or kids hanging out at pools (in which way more kids probably drown than in caves). Maybe it's not considered so reckless.

Except as a tourist a couple of times, I have never been to such caves. I wouldn't think rain would be an issue. Like you, I have now read in the media that there were warning signs that said something about flooded caves during monsoon season, and maybe they saw the signs or should have seen the signs. Or maybe people in that area know that local caves flood during monsoon. I don't know. Three weeks ago I certainly wouldn't have thought of flooding as the obvious risk in a cave. I would probably have worried more about falling or slipping or snakes or earthquakes or getting lost.

And even if they did check the weather forecast, would they have known that caves would be flooded? In the last few days, every meteorologist in the world has looked into whether that mountain in Thailand would get rain and experts have tried to guess what it would mean for the flooding in the caves and the ongoing rescue mission. But although it rained it didn't mean that the water raised much. Maybe these people go to the caves regularly while it rains and it's not a problem.

We simply don't know enough to blame the coach.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#276

Post by joejerryronnie »

jeandejean wrote: post #20

I'm more surprised by the fact that they went that far into the cave in the first place! The coach should be in prison now for putting so many kids in danger and be the cause of a rescue diver death!

From what I understand the coach's actions after they became trapped are a significant reason the boys survived until the rescue. He shared a large portion of his food with them and taught them meditation exercises to remain calm and level headed (which probably also conserved their oxygen). Regardless of the circumstances leading to them being trapped, this man should be seen as a hero.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#277

Post by Boxxed »

theossuary wrote: post #240
bdz wrote: post #213

"If a man gets lost in the mountains, hundreds will search and often two or three searchers are killed. But the next time somebody gets lost, just as many volunteers turn out. Poor arithmetic, but very human. It runs through all our folklore, all human religions, all our literature—a racial conviction that when one human needs rescue, others should not count the price. Weakness? It might be the unique strength that w…

What a great book, just finished listening to it. Afterwards I heard a lot of people thought it had a pro military/war bent; I don't think they read the book

A lot of people consider Starship Troopers to be pro-military (the US military itself has it on the recommended reading list for the enlisted). Heinlen's background and the situation surrounding the writing of the book also suggests it would be pro-military.

I'm curious as to what would make you think otherwise?

Sources: https://sites.google.com/a/newmyths.com/nmwebsite/non_fictio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#278

Post by chx »

abandonliberty wrote: post #255
bdz wrote: post #213

"If a man gets lost in the mountains, hundreds will search and often two or three searchers are killed. But the next time somebody gets lost, just as many volunteers turn out. Poor arithmetic, but very human. It runs through all our folklore, all human religions, all our literature—a racial conviction that when one human needs rescue, others should not count the price. Weakness? It might be the unique strength that w…

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

Is 3000 a low enough number? There are 3000 children in concentration camps in the USA separated from their parents.

Edit: yes, I have chosen the words concentration camps to evoke the sceptre of the Holocaust. Also note my grandmother is still alive and an Auschwitz survivor. We. have. seen. this. before!

1. Classification 2. Symbolization 3. Discrimination 4. Dehumanization 5. Organization 6. Polarization 7. Preparation 8. Persecution 9. Extermination 10. Denial

By my count, the USA is at step 8 of the ten steps of genocide.

Or if you want, check the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court:

Article 6

Genocide

For the purpose of this Statute, ‘genocide’ means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Also note who signed the letter about the US not being part of said Rome Statute: https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2002/9968.htm Bolton was appointed on March 22, the disastrous zero tolerance memo came out on April 6 and I have a horrible feeling of Bolton reminding Trump and Sessions they can't be hauled to The Hague for committing a crime against humanity because the USA is not part of the ICC -- who would know this better?

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#279

Post by dekhn »

the_spacebyte wrote: post #178
dekhn wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't do anything to help- I don't think saving 12 people in a Thailand cave means a lot, globally speaking. Why do you say he was asked to do something? He offered to help. More realistically, however, he should have chosen to stay out of the way- he didn't get his device to the site until the rescue operation was already half completed. It wouldn't have worked anyway- it wasn't fit for the purpose. Getting a bun…

Here https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1015105500105412610 Yes it was not an official call for help, but someone asked. He even acknowledged that experts were already on the field, and his first reaction was to just send goods there before advancing with engineering ideas. Following your idea why were there so many civilian divers? Why not let the Thai military do the job? That's just PR. Those attention-seeking ba…

The divers were highly qualified in ways the Thai military was not. That's why they were there.

BTW, I'm not a neckbeard since I shaved this morning, but really, if you resort to attacks like that, it makes you look like a jerk

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#280

Post by triviatise »

tomxor wrote: post #260
bdz wrote: post #213

"If a man gets lost in the mountains, hundreds will search and often two or three searchers are killed. But the next time somebody gets lost, just as many volunteers turn out. Poor arithmetic, but very human. It runs through all our folklore, all human religions, all our literature—a racial conviction that when one human needs rescue, others should not count the price. Weakness? It might be the unique strength that w…

Well, in this case one of the Thai divers died from running out of oxygen... but 12 - 1 is still a win if you want to reduce it to arithmetic.

Except with the money spent they could have saved 50000 kids from dying from easily preventable diarrheal diseases with inexpensive vaccines.
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