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The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

theguardian.com

81–90 of 145 posts

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#81
post #9

AI is nonsense. Dijkstra was right. I'm not saying that silicon/mechanical intelligence isn't possible. I'm unaware of any physical law that precludes it. But what we currently call "AI" is just the pathetic fallacy run wild. All that said, multidimensional data-driven linear recognizers are pretty impressive.

The idea that ai will be a revolutionary leap is probably nonsense. What we have seen so far is slow incremental evolutionary development of the tech over decades. Everyone raising money is claiming that the quantum leap is just around the corner but there is very little evidence to support that.

What you actually see is that improvements in perceived machine intelligence show diminishing returns to increasing compute capacity which is a good sign that people are on the wrong track to achieve general ai and that future improvements in perceived intelligence will grow at a slower rate, not exponentially increase.

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even need to do it secretly, just say it's the next step. See: Uber

But Uber has what seems to be world class Machine Learning (If that's not the heart of AI, what is?) lab. I am not well versed enough to compare it to Google's, or openAI, but is surely seems like they are at least trying to push the research envelope?

Evading regulators (Greyball) is a very different problem domain to self-driving cars

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#83
post #80

I think this article may be overstating a little. First, the prototyping/bootstrapping with humans is not a terrible idea. It takes a hurdle, and moves it down the line a bit. You still need to get over that hurdle. It's still a potential failure point, but it's not an irrational approach. There are a ton of businesses started on the basis of. 1. make free service 2. get 1bn customers 3. ??? 4. profit Twitter, Google…

First, the prototyping/bootstrapping with humans is not a terrible idea Well, it might be. Are human drivers really prototyping/bootstrapping self-driving cars? We are deeply into the territory of Moravec’s Paradox here.

Interesting, care to elaborate?

For a lot of NN/ML applications, they magic ingredient is "humans" and a record of humans doing something enough times to describe statistically. AI sign recognition, sentence completion or checker playing is very often based on estimates of "what would a human do."

"Would a human say this photo contains cats", is really how a lot of ML interprets the question "where is my cat"?

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#84
post #72
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless your data is encrypted using keys that only you control then you have to assume that random people are looking at it. That is inherent in the nature of SaaS.

Technically yes. But since GMail became widespread, there’s a tacit agreement that my data won’t be looked at by random humans.

Except that it is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17443056

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#85
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, the prototyping/bootstrapping with humans is not a terrible idea Well, it might be. Are human drivers really prototyping/bootstrapping self-driving cars? We are deeply into the territory of Moravec’s Paradox here.

Interesting, care to elaborate? For a lot of NN/ML applications, they magic ingredient is "humans" and a record of humans doing something enough times to describe statistically. AI sign recognition, sentence completion or checker playing is very often based on estimates of "what would a human do." "Would a human say this photo contains cats", is really how a lot of ML interprets the question "where is my cat"?

Interesting, care to elaborate?

Moravec's Paradox is that everyone thought that sensory input would be easy and reasoning about those inputs would be hard. But it turns out that the sensory input part is very hard, much harder than anyone thought, and once you have that down, the reasoning is actually simple. So any service that is relying on humans doing the sensory input bit is handwaving away the difficult part. Humans aren't really aware of how much processing is involved in things we take for granted such as sight and hearing. We think that thinking is "special" but it requires relatively little power to do that once the underlying hardware/wetware has already processed the signals.

For example, a fundamental bit of logic is

    if pedestrian():
        apply_brakes()
Which is trivial... once you have a pedestrian() function that is.

"Would a human say this photo contains cats", is really how a lot of ML interprets the question "where is my cat"?

Yes and no. If you ask a human, why do you think this is a cat, he or she will say, well look at the whiskers and the ears and the paws and the general overall cuteness. But an NN doesn't have a whisker coefficient or a cuteness multiplier. It doesn't "think" like a human and nor should we expect it to. ML that is more human-like is a decision tree, but once you start getting into random decision jungles and the like, the explainability starts to diminish.

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#86

My favorite example of this sort of thing, mentioned in the Guardian story, is the kerfuffle late last year when Expensify's receipt-reading SmartScan feature was found out to be partly backed by human receipt readers: https://qz.com/1141695/startup-expensifys-smart-scanning-tec... (I don't file expenses often, but personally when I do so through Expensify, I find SmartScan so slow that I now assume all my "SmartScan…

How do they handle bogus results from MTurk? I know people that tried to use it and had to stop because 95% of the "workers" just put meaningless data in hoping you don't notice and they get paid.

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#87
I gave a lecture a couple of months ago called Developing your AI BS Detector addressing this very topic.

https://adamdrake.com/developing-your-ai-bs-detector.html

The main thesis is that there seem to be more and more companies out there solving interesting problems, which by itself is great, but they're bolting a lot of wording on top talking about AI. Most of this seems to be an attempt to differentiate themselves in the market and access funding and I find it incredibly dishonest.

The whole discussion around AI these days has become so tainted by scheisters trying to attract funding and attention that I actively try to distance myself from association.

We need to focus a lot more on Intelligence Amplification (IA) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_amplification), i.e., building tools for humans to become more productive, and less on AI.

Douglas Engelbart and others had this figured out 50 years ago (see: the Mother of All Demos). The AI hype is dangerous, since it will no doubt lead to the trough of disillusionment.

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#88
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, care to elaborate? For a lot of NN/ML applications, they magic ingredient is "humans" and a record of humans doing something enough times to describe statistically. AI sign recognition, sentence completion or checker playing is very often based on estimates of "what would a human do." "Would a human say this photo contains cats", is really how a lot of ML interprets the question "where is my cat"?

Interesting, care to elaborate? Moravec's Paradox is that everyone thought that sensory input would be easy and reasoning about those inputs would be hard. But it turns out that the sensory input part is very hard, much harder than anyone thought, and once you have that down, the reasoning is actually simple. So any service that is relying on humans doing the sensory input bit is handwaving away the difficult part. H…

I didn't mean that it thinks like a human, rather that it's thinking is based on a statistical aggregation of a bunch of humans thinking. 1,000 humans identify cats. Train an NN to identify cats based on that training set.

The point about the paradox is good one, and very relevant to this issue. I can't tell if it is a paradox about computers/intelligence or a point about people. I suppose it's all the same when it comes to building wizard of Oz companies. because Moravec's Paradox, you will probably misidentify what is the easy and/or hard part of the problem you are trying to solve with AI.

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#89
post #86

My favorite example of this sort of thing, mentioned in the Guardian story, is the kerfuffle late last year when Expensify's receipt-reading SmartScan feature was found out to be partly backed by human receipt readers: https://qz.com/1141695/startup-expensifys-smart-scanning-tec... (I don't file expenses often, but personally when I do so through Expensify, I find SmartScan so slow that I now assume all my "SmartScan…

How do they handle bogus results from MTurk? I know people that tried to use it and had to stop because 95% of the "workers" just put meaningless data in hoping you don't notice and they get paid.

It depends on the task, but if you can get them to do multiple tasks in one, you can ask them to do a task you already know the answer to. If they get the known answer wrong, instant reject.

Re: The rise of 'pseudo-AI': how tech firms quietly use humans to do bots' work

#90
post #32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI => machine learning => automated statistics

Rendered in English: Automated statistics is a consequence of machine learning. Machine learning is a consequence of AI. I don't understand your point. Please explain.

They mean "greater than or equal to", which doesn't make it correct, but at least makes sense of their point.
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