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Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

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Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#51

Post by notlob »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27
mixmastamyk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I've never had an interview where they asked about my college education. They don’t ask, but many places throw your resume without a bachelors into the trash at the first step in the hiring process. Ask me how I know.

> They don’t ask, but many places throw your resume without a bachelors into the trash at the first step in the hiring process. Ask me how I know. I'm very understanding of this sentiment. I have suggested to people to get around this by simply lying about having a bachelors degree on their resume. If the employer verifies, you're out nothing. If they don't, you have a job you otherwise wouldn't have had. You have to…

> If they don't, you have a job you otherwise wouldn't have had.

No, you have a job for as long as you're able to keep your lie secret. Once the lie comes out, even if it's X years down the road, you're terminated for cause, and if a prospective new employer calls they will be told you are "ineligible to be rehired." There are possible legal consequences as well.

GP, do not lie. In the long run, the world works out to be pretty fair, and liars are revealed for what they are.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#52

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #44
themodelplumber wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't do this. I have a client who did this, and he now wonders how many interviews he _missed out on_ over a 3-year period because the employer was interested but the college screening came up lie-positive. Many, many employers public & private do verify. And some people will start rumors if you are in a small community, or if they know someone you know. And if the employer later finds out that you lied, the lie wil…

What is your suggestion for OP where their resume is immediately discard because of no education? Networking and meetups won’t get you passed HR filters and corporate requirements. As I mentioned, even if you don’t get the job or lose the job, you’re still ahead of not trying. And you now have experience to put towards your next employer (and your old employer will only verify employment dates, as they don’t want to…

> As I mentioned, even if you don’t get the job or lose the job, you’re still ahead of not trying.

I fail to see how poisoning your own reputation comes out as "still ahead"; that is absolutely guaranteed to get your résumé silently discarded. The tech community isn't that big, even in the tech hubs, and word does eventually get around both among engineers and recruiters.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#53

Post by freehunter »

rifung wrote: post #48
freehunter wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't have my bachelor's degree until very recently... three jobs and nearly 10 years into my career. When I got my degree, no one seemed to care. I didn't get a pay raise or anything.

I don't think you'll get a pay raise for it but not having it might prevent you from getting jobs. I've definitely been asked why I didn't go to/finish my Bachelor's in many interviews. Who knows how many jobs I was skipped over because I didn't have it. Could be 0 for all I know but how would I know? That being said, after a few years of working nobody cared about it anymore.

Like I said, some fields care. Some don't. YMMV. Getting an interview depends on a million and a half factors, it's hard to say one is more important than the other.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#55

Post by Eridrus »

mattkrause wrote: post #46
Eridrus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there actually good evidence on the value of a "well-rounded education"? But in any case, I don't think shoe-horning general education into what is basically jobs training is the right approach. We put kids through 12 years of "general education", if we haven't succeeded at that point, why would a few more college credits help?

I’m not sure that knowing about Æthelred the Unready is particularly useful for most jobs, but if you think of these classes as (covertly) teaching critical thinking and writing skills, then perhaps they make some sense even if you don’t value knowing about the world beyond your particular specialization.

But are they actually teaching critical thinking successfully? And why would you need to wait until college for those effects to show up? The humanities classes are taught throughout regular schooling.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#56

Post by forapurpose »

I think community colleges are great, but they also are used to reframe the issues away from the real problems and solutions:

First, employers are only interested in what you can do for them, immediately. They are not interested in you or the rest of your life either 'horizontally' (the very many other aspects of your life, from individual to parent to citizen to homeowner to intellectual to whatever) or vertically (the rest of your life after you work for them, after you retire, if you get sick, have kids, go to grad school, etc.). For example, many employers will repeat the trendy mantra that all you need is community college skills, but they won't hire you for management without an MBA.

Second, the distribution of education is not based on capability and need, but on the wealth of parents. Wealthy kids without academic talent or effort get 4 year degrees or more; poor kids who are smart and work hard get community college or less. It's just as good, the wealthy people say, but somehow not good enough for their kids or to hire or pay well.

Finally, the demand for 4 year college is overwhelming, which we can see based on the ability to raise tuition without impacting attendance. The demand in the labor market is overwhelming, based on salary differences. Let's meet the demand and stop finding second rate substitutions.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#57

Post by garmaine »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #44
themodelplumber wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't do this. I have a client who did this, and he now wonders how many interviews he _missed out on_ over a 3-year period because the employer was interested but the college screening came up lie-positive. Many, many employers public & private do verify. And some people will start rumors if you are in a small community, or if they know someone you know. And if the employer later finds out that you lied, the lie wil…

What is your suggestion for OP where their resume is immediately discard because of no education? Networking and meetups won’t get you passed HR filters and corporate requirements. As I mentioned, even if you don’t get the job or lose the job, you’re still ahead of not trying. And you now have experience to put towards your next employer (and your old employer will only verify employment dates, as they don’t want to…

B.Sc. Computer Information Systems, Wahresleben University, 2014.

(Wahres Leben = “real life” in German)

If they actually check they won’t find the university but they can’t discount the fact it might exist. So HR is more likely to follow up with you then throw your resume out, and you can take that chance to explain you being more to the table than a university graduate.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#58

Post by walshemj »

freehunter wrote: post #53
rifung wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you'll get a pay raise for it but not having it might prevent you from getting jobs. I've definitely been asked why I didn't go to/finish my Bachelor's in many interviews. Who knows how many jobs I was skipped over because I didn't have it. Could be 0 for all I know but how would I know? That being said, after a few years of working nobody cared about it anymore.

Like I said, some fields care. Some don't. YMMV. Getting an interview depends on a million and a half factors, it's hard to say one is more important than the other.

And depends on culture - I have had negative reactions in the UK when being interviewed by IBM and by a French company.

I also why its why I didn't get a call back from Ebay I suspect spain where the hr person was based might have some biases.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#59

Post by walshemj »

notlob wrote: post #51
toomuchtodo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don’t ask, but many places throw your resume without a bachelors into the trash at the first step in the hiring process. Ask me how I know. I'm very understanding of this sentiment. I have suggested to people to get around this by simply lying about having a bachelors degree on their resume. If the employer verifies, you're out nothing. If they don't, you have a job you otherwise wouldn't have had. You have to…

> If they don't, you have a job you otherwise wouldn't have had. No, you have a job for as long as you're able to keep your lie secret. Once the lie comes out, even if it's X years down the road, you're terminated for cause, and if a prospective new employer calls they will be told you are "ineligible to be rehired." There are possible legal consequences as well. GP, do not lie. In the long run, the world works out t…

There are number of recent very high c level executives who where fired for this.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#60

Post by walshemj »

disqard wrote: post #18
mettamage wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the prequisite knowledge that you have. If you're good in reading knitting patterns, it means you have a tack for algorithms. If you know propositional logic because you were a philosophy major, then if-statements are basically a syntactic difference and nothing else. When I was a bootcamp instructor I noticed that my top students were able to pick up React Native or Electron without me teaching…

As someone with experience teaching younger people (middle school students) programming, I have also seen this three-way split, though it may not be an even one. 1. Learners who will succeed, regardless of the amount and nature of instruction. 2. Learners who will not be able to grasp the material, due to lack of engagement, interest, self-efficacy, or some other related factors that cannot easily be fixed in a one-t…

Its how teachers in the UK put most effort in getting D level students to a C and tend to ignore both the struggling and high achievers.
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