Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College • Hacker News Board

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#41

Post by mattkrause » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #28

grandmczeb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your characterization of adjuncts is unnecessarily harsh. Many simply enjoy teaching in a university environment and aren't "desperately clinging" to anything.

Adjunct lecturing has terrible working conditions and benefits. It is a hobby, not a job. No one should do it as a job. Anyone who treats it as a job should be dissuaded from doing so as forcefully as possible to prevent further suffering. If you have a spouse with a good job and insurance or a trust fund by all means do it as a hobby, even an especially engrossing one. Anyone who describes themself as an adjunct pro…

It’s a terrible full-time job, but I had some excellent classes from adjunct professors who were working 3/4 time in industry and government.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#42

Post by kaycebasques » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

Community college was one of the smartest moves of my life.

The IGETC program ensured that my education was equivalent to what I would have gotten at a UC as a freshmen and sophomore.

My teachers were mostly Stanford and Berkeley PHDs. They were dedicated to teaching. Not trying to balance research and teaching. 30 people per class, maximum. Arguably, I got a better education than UC students.

And obviously, cost. My mom raised me and my brother. On paper, we were rather poor. The financial grants for students from low-income families essentially paid for all costs. If I had been really savvy with my money, I actually could have saved a few grand each year.

I transferred to UC Berkeley after 2 years, right on time.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#43

Post by mattkrause » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #17

chrisseaton wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you need about 20 years of top tier papers to get to the rank of professor?

No, it’s just a title. Directional State University will have professors because they have a status hierarchy and titles are a significant part of that, and the total compensation. As I understand the US system for four year universities TOP Professor with an endowed chair University or Full Professor Associate Professor (They have tenure and time in position) Assistant Professor (They don’t have tenure. This is thei…

In my experience, visiting assistant professors are often freshly-minted PhDs building up their portfolios before going on the job market “for real.” It’s like a postdoc but with much more emphasis on teaching.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#44

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

themodelplumber wrote: post #40

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don’t ask, but many places throw your resume without a bachelors into the trash at the first step in the hiring process. Ask me how I know. I'm very understanding of this sentiment. I have suggested to people to get around this by simply lying about having a bachelors degree on their resume. If the employer verifies, you're out nothing. If they don't, you have a job you otherwise wouldn't have had. You have to…

Don't do this. I have a client who did this, and he now wonders how many interviews he _missed out on_ over a 3-year period because the employer was interested but the college screening came up lie-positive. Many, many employers public & private do verify. And some people will start rumors if you are in a small community, or if they know someone you know. And if the employer later finds out that you lied, the lie wil…

What is your suggestion for OP where their resume is immediately discard because of no education? Networking and meetups won’t get you passed HR filters and corporate requirements.

As I mentioned, even if you don’t get the job or lose the job, you’re still ahead of not trying. And you now have experience to put towards your next employer (and your old employer will only verify employment dates, as they don’t want to be sued).

This is the unfortunate reality of an asymmetric labor market where employers can make demands with no cost to themselves. Fake it until you make it.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#45

Post by freehunter » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #24

freehunter wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Community colleges really are underrated. In a world where increasingly a bachelor's degree does not guarantee a job, university education is super expensive, and especially in fields where a bachelor's degree is not necessary (I've never had an interview where they asked about my college education), vocational schools are the place to be. Four-year universities put big emphasis on well-rounded educations, so you're…

> (I've never had an interview where they asked about my college education. They don’t ask, but many places throw your resume without a bachelors into the trash at the first step in the hiring process. Ask me how I know.

I didn't have my bachelor's degree until very recently... three jobs and nearly 10 years into my career. When I got my degree, no one seemed to care. I didn't get a pay raise or anything.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#46

Post by mattkrause » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

Eridrus wrote: post #35

finaliteration wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the other advantage is that at most community colleges you are required to branch out from technical topics and take at least a few humanities and liberal arts courses. You end up coming out slightly more well-rounded which can be hugely beneficial both career and life wise.

Is there actually good evidence on the value of a "well-rounded education"? But in any case, I don't think shoe-horning general education into what is basically jobs training is the right approach. We put kids through 12 years of "general education", if we haven't succeeded at that point, why would a few more college credits help?

I’m not sure that knowing about Æthelred the Unready is particularly useful for most jobs, but if you think of these classes as (covertly) teaching critical thinking and writing skills, then perhaps they make some sense even if you don’t value knowing about the world beyond your particular specialization.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#47

Post by autotune » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

finaliteration wrote: post #2

I attended community college for a few years before transferring to a 4-year university. During that time I took a variety of technical and non-technical courses that I really enjoyed and felt I got a lot of value from due to the small class sizes and ability to connect with professors outside of class fairly easily. I would have stopped after getting my Associate’s degree as I felt like I had learned a lot and I had…

I'm like you except I skipped college and went straight into the working world. It's entirely possible to do without an education but you have to get creative with how you acquire that initial experience, in my case through volunteering to do basic IT work before landing the first job and then some minor open source contributions to move into the devops space. Sure I'm probably not making $300K/year at the Big 4 any time soon but I've done well enough to afford a nice apartment rental in the Bay Area without roommates or student loan debt and save so I consider that doing just fine all considering.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#48

Post by rifung » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #45

mixmastamyk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I've never had an interview where they asked about my college education. They don’t ask, but many places throw your resume without a bachelors into the trash at the first step in the hiring process. Ask me how I know.

I didn't have my bachelor's degree until very recently... three jobs and nearly 10 years into my career. When I got my degree, no one seemed to care. I didn't get a pay raise or anything.

I don't think you'll get a pay raise for it but not having it might prevent you from getting jobs.

I've definitely been asked why I didn't go to/finish my Bachelor's in many interviews. Who knows how many jobs I was skipped over because I didn't have it. Could be 0 for all I know but how would I know?

That being said, after a few years of working nobody cared about it anymore.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#49

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:32 PM UTC

samcheng wrote: post #4

This is an interesting reaction to the "bootcamp" trend (and subsequent implosion). I think it has a better chance of succeeding: you might not need four years of university education to become an entry-level developer, but a few weeks of intensive "bootcamp" training isn't enough.

[deleted]

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#50

Post by themodelplumber » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #44

themodelplumber wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't do this. I have a client who did this, and he now wonders how many interviews he _missed out on_ over a 3-year period because the employer was interested but the college screening came up lie-positive. Many, many employers public & private do verify. And some people will start rumors if you are in a small community, or if they know someone you know. And if the employer later finds out that you lied, the lie wil…

What is your suggestion for OP where their resume is immediately discard because of no education? Networking and meetups won’t get you passed HR filters and corporate requirements. As I mentioned, even if you don’t get the job or lose the job, you’re still ahead of not trying. And you now have experience to put towards your next employer (and your old employer will only verify employment dates, as they don’t want to…

"Fake it until you make it" is completely different from "lie until you are caught." Speaking from experience, lying is not a good idea.

OP is competing against people who have put in work that he/she hasn't. That's just the reality. The best way in is to show the employer that they are a qualitatively superior employee. Networking and filters are _very often_ surpassed by leadership, sometimes even by creating new positions that are an exact fit for that person's experience. I have a few clients who were hired this way, and had better opportunities because of it. I even got a job that way myself long ago, when a CEO friend-of-a-friend hired me in a low level role but then re-read my resume and moved me to corporate offices to work more directly with leadership.

Lying about your past is not a good idea in this case, and it's far worse than just faking a role until you get better at it.