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California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

niemanlab.org

441–450 of 554 posts

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#441
post #283

One of the philosophies at Netflix was that it should be as easy to cancel as it is to sign up, because you should respect your customers enough not to annoy them into keeping your service. Honestly, it always seemed to me that it was actually easier to cancel than the sign up.

Any company that generates value for a customer doesn't have retention issues. I used to run software engineering at two subscription commerce companies. One company allowed users to cancel and pause/skip online via webpage, chat, email and even social channels. The other forced customers to call up support to cancel. The first company sold for 10 figures, the other company just did a down round and layoffs. Screwing…

This is unfortunately only true in a competitive environment for non essential goods. If you provide services such as internet, or telephone where people can only choose between one or two providers, which are all equally bad, the customers don’t have a choice.

And then there are services where people sign up but only a very small percentage would voluntarily come back no matter how good or bad your service is because they sign up out of impulse. Gyms are good examples for those — people sign up because they want to lose weight/stay fitter, etc but only a small percentage actually goes there after the first few times. This of course sucks for the regular customers who want to pause their membership because they are too busy for a few months or move, etc (but on the other hand, those no-goes also subsidies the regular goers because the gym can offer a lower price for everyone).

For those companies, we need laws that make it equally as easy to cancel as to sign up.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#442
post #12

For places that require a phone call I came up with a trick to cancel via email. If they reply back via email and say I have to call them, I tell them I'm deaf and can't talk on the phone. Works every time.

I have a different trick: I use Lob.com to send a cancellation request through certified mail. Works every time, and takes 5 minutes.

That's interesting. So I took a look at lob.com's web site and I can't figure out which service you use.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a different trick: I use Lob.com to send a cancellation request through certified mail. Works every time, and takes 5 minutes.

That's interesting. So I took a look at lob.com's web site and I can't figure out which service you use.

I just use the web GUI to upload a PDF and send the letter.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#444
post #379

We europeans better block every access from California due to this overreaching undemocratic GDPR style law. /s

European law is years beyond this. Consumer laws in some EU countries stipulate that a person can cancel a subscription simply by vocalizing this intention out their front door between the hours of 9am-3pm. "Heyy, I'm cancelling."

Hah, nice one.

Where i live (The Netherlands, Europe) you are allowed by law to cancel subscriptions in the same way you signed up. That seems fair... so if you sign up via internet then you can cancel via internet. No more cancel-bullying.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please listen closely, our menu options have changed

>>> Please listen closely, our menu options have changed. You are missing the "as". Please listen closely, as our menu options have changed. I know it by heart and can hear the same voice over and over again in my head. Crap!

>>> Please listen closely ass, our menu options have changed.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#446
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any company that generates value for a customer doesn't have retention issues. I used to run software engineering at two subscription commerce companies. One company allowed users to cancel and pause/skip online via webpage, chat, email and even social channels. The other forced customers to call up support to cancel. The first company sold for 10 figures, the other company just did a down round and layoffs. Screwing…

This is unfortunately only true in a competitive environment for non essential goods. If you provide services such as internet, or telephone where people can only choose between one or two providers, which are all equally bad, the customers don’t have a choice. And then there are services where people sign up but only a very small percentage would voluntarily come back no matter how good or bad your service is becaus…

>This of course sucks for the regular customers who want to pause their membership because they are too busy for a few months or move

Yeah, I'd wanted to pause my gym membership for 3 months a couple years back because I was going to be traveling a lot, and wasn't going to be in town. Only option was to cancel, then pay a new "processing fee" to start again months later. Really pissed me off. I'd been a member for 2 years at that point, using regularly. no exceptions to their policy. i left. i did go back a couple years later, when they had a 'sign up and we waive the processing fee!' promotion (closest/best combination of pool/gym - everything else is miles further). They'd have had my monthly money for another couple years with minimal use by me during that time, save for a stupid policy that "we can't change". ugh...

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#447

I hope this forces the NYTimes to allow online cancellations too.

Funny that NYT came up on two separate threads here. I know they made me go through hell to cancel, sounds like I'm not the only one.

Media outlets in general. I know they make the argument about GDPR and ad tracking that they need it because nobody pays for them, but maybe more people would pay if it wasn't so foolish to trust them with your payment details.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#448
The EU's new data privacy law (GDPR) allows you to withdraw consent, and "it must be as easy to withdraw consent as to give it". A perfectly clear and powerful way to describe what is wanted.

"It must be as easy to cancel a subscription as to subscribe" would a similar, effective way to do it here.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#449
post #12

For places that require a phone call I came up with a trick to cancel via email. If they reply back via email and say I have to call them, I tell them I'm deaf and can't talk on the phone. Works every time.

but would not that make you feel a little guilty as you are lying to the person just to cancel a subscription?

No more guilty than corporations feel for making customers jump through hoops just to cancel a service they no longer need or want.

You can take that as "not at all guilty".

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#450
post #205
post #133

This was already required in the Visa Merchant agreement. If you signed up online. The merchant must provide an online way to cancel which could be email, webpage or chat. If they don't just call up your card issuer and file a "canceled recurring" dispute as the merchant doesn't provide a visa acceptable way to cancel the subscription. https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/about-visa/15-April-2... Section: 5.9.8.2

so the solution to having to call a merchant to cancel a subscription is to call your card issuer to cancel a subscription?

if you/lots of people have call a merchant a lot to cancel, then it doesn't matter. If the bank/credit card companies get lots of calls about one merchant, they might tell the merchant to get it's act together or risk higher fees. "Fix your cancellation process or we'll turn off your ability to charge anyone next month" tends to get more powerful people to take note.
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