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California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

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Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#401

Post by smsm42 »

kibibu wrote: post #382
fragsworth wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fucking assholes. I guess that's why we need these stupid laws.

Don't let the libertarians hear you say that

Charging people who do not need the service and not letting them cancel looks like fraud, certainly not a voluntary transaction of two willing individuals. I do not see any problem from the point of libertarian for the state to protect the right of a person who does not consent to a business relationship anymore to withdraw from it - just as it is true for any other relationship. Just as libertarians would not object to the laws allowing people to leave a job or divorce, they should not object - from purely libertarian grounds - to laws that allow people to dissolve business relationship without undue burden and involuntary money transactions.

Now, if the gym in question would fully inform the person that they have nearly impossible cancellation procedure and obtained informed prior consent, that would be different. But that never happens.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#402

Post by aphextron »

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #331

Thank god for that. I made the mistake of joining a Goodlife gym in Canada many moons ago... The place was disgusting. Always crowded. Mould growing in the bathrooms. Stunk very badly, etc... So I stopped going regularly... and one day I was in the area I decided to stop in and cancel my membership. "Oh sorry, you'll need to make an appointment with management in order to cancel." "OK, is a manager in right now?" "Ye…

Gyms are a whole other level of insanity for unwanted charges. Planet Fitness's entire business model is essentially counting on people to forget they entered their checking account number, and missing the bill. They wont even allow you to sign up with a credit card.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#403

Post by cm2187 »

craftyguy wrote: post #364
TeMPOraL wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My dad used to use "I'm unemployed and have no money" on telemarketers, with some success. I've tried telling the truth, I've tried assertively stating I'm not interested, I've tried so many things... ...at this point, when I pick up a call, I wait for the other side to introduce themselves, and if they call with an unsolicited offer, I just hang up without saying anything. Am I a bad person?

Not at all. My current method is to block all numbers not in my contact list.. if they are important, they'll leave a voicemail. Works surprisingly well, actually.

Effectively the phone equivalent of grey listing for emails.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#404

Post by isostatic »

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #366
fragsworth wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing to do is issue a chargeback. You tell the credit card company that you 1) tried to cancel, and they wouldn't do it; and 2) you did not get any service from them since you tried to cancel. They have to pay you back AND THEY GET CHARGED an additional $20-$30 that your credit card company takes from them as punishment. Please don't abuse chargebacks unless the merchant deserves it, though.

>The best thing to do is issue a chargeback. They had me sign over my direct withdrawal banking details the day I signed up. I regret doing that.

Can you not cancel? In the UK its a matter of logging into the bank and pressing "cancel" on the list of direct debits.

Not only that but any mistaken withdrawal is refunded.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#405

Post by ec109685 »

Cyphase wrote: post #216
ec109685 wrote: post #186

Another consumer first law I would like to see is that if a service detects you haven’t used it in the previous period, they refund your subscription fee. There is so much wasted money on zombie subscriptions that people forget about.

I understand where you're coming from (though I would never legislate it), but compare it to insurance. Should your car insurance company have to refund your premiums if you don't "use" their service in some time period, i.e. you don't file a claim? Should a life insurance company return all your premiums if you don't die during the covered term? I'm going to say no. In the case of insurance, you're paying for someon…

The email with an easy action to take would be a good compromise.

Insurance’s value is that any moment they are willing to pay out.

With subscription services, if you only use them occasionally, the smart thing is to let them expire and then resubscrive when you need their services. However the hassle in subscribing and unsubscribing is too high to make practical.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#406

Post by smsm42 »

swayvil wrote: post #341
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #331

Thank god for that. I made the mistake of joining a Goodlife gym in Canada many moons ago... The place was disgusting. Always crowded. Mould growing in the bathrooms. Stunk very badly, etc... So I stopped going regularly... and one day I was in the area I decided to stop in and cancel my membership. "Oh sorry, you'll need to make an appointment with management in order to cancel." "OK, is a manager in right now?" "Ye…

The abuse of politeness appears to be the cornerstone of our society. My name is MEGACORP. I am a member of the polite society that contains us both. A polite person follows the rules with a smile. The rules say that I get to eat you.

Politeness is not a problem. You can be very polite and still insist on doing what you want. You just need to realize the person who's selling you crap is not your friend and you don't owe them anything, and politely refuse to take it. Saying "no, I do not want this, thank you" is not impolite.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#407

Post by lgregg »

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #366
fragsworth wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing to do is issue a chargeback. You tell the credit card company that you 1) tried to cancel, and they wouldn't do it; and 2) you did not get any service from them since you tried to cancel. They have to pay you back AND THEY GET CHARGED an additional $20-$30 that your credit card company takes from them as punishment. Please don't abuse chargebacks unless the merchant deserves it, though.

>The best thing to do is issue a chargeback. They had me sign over my direct withdrawal banking details the day I signed up. I regret doing that.

I got new accounts once because of that. Not fun.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#408

Post by smsm42 »

olliej wrote: post #320
sonnyblarney wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I didn't realize PayPal could dip into my checking account any time they wanted to." EBay did this to me once, I think this is an American thing, doesn't happen here in Canada like that.

Oh yeah, this was one of the most insane things I experienced moving to the US. If someone has your bank account number they can withdraw money from it. For example the errands bank account authentication mechanism is to withdraw some money from your account, and then ask you how much they took. I honestly could not believe it. It gets better: if you have someone’s bank account number you still cannot transfer money…

Yes, though they must be a bank or have an agreement with a bank. Random person can't just do it by just having the numbers. And a bank can get in trouble if it allows shady clients access to ACH.

> bank account authentication mechanism is to withdraw some money from your account, and then ask you how much they took

In my experience, it is usually the reverse - they put a small sum there, and then withdraw it back after auth. But the end result is the same, of course (except if you have less than $1 on your account).

> if you have someone’s bank account number you still cannot transfer money to them

That's indeed weird, because I see no technical reason (at least with my knowledge about ACH - btw HN had recently a couple of nice articles about it) why that would not be possible, but my bank only allows me to transfer money to my accounts. No idea why. Maybe some legal stuff?

OTOH there are apps like venmo which make it easier.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#409

Post by masonic »

imroot wrote: post #365
sonnyblarney wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I didn't realize PayPal could dip into my checking account any time they wanted to." EBay did this to me once, I think this is an American thing, doesn't happen here in Canada like that.

I had an issue where I accidentally sent an eBay shipment to an old address. It's something that I immediately recognized after clicking "Buy now," and immediately sent a message to the senders; all but one of them corrected the issue and sent the package to the right address, but, one didn't...and it wasn't a big deal -- a $15 package -- but, it was more about the principle... I followed eBay's "Buyer protection" to…

Note that PayPal requires that the vendor ship to the confirmed address that the buyer used in the payment. If the seller or shipper ships to a different address, even at the buyers request, they lose all Seller Protection.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#410

Post by Doxin »

wl wrote: post #293
jedberg wrote: post #194

One of the philosophies at Netflix was that it should be as easy to cancel as it is to sign up, because you should respect your customers enough not to annoy them into keeping your service. Honestly, it always seemed to me that it was actually easier to cancel than the sign up.

It's too easy to cancel Netflix. Someone called in and gave my first initial + last name @ gmail email address and cancelled for me without any further verification.

I mean, reactivating your account is just a case of hitting a button as well. So while annoying it's not like anything is lost.
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