California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online • Hacker News Board

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#361

Post by Rylinks » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:15 AM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #351

fragsworth wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing to do is issue a chargeback. You tell the credit card company that you 1) tried to cancel, and they wouldn't do it; and 2) you did not get any service from them since you tried to cancel. They have to pay you back AND THEY GET CHARGED an additional $20-$30 that your credit card company takes from them as punishment. Please don't abuse chargebacks unless the merchant deserves it, though.

Maybe in Canada but in USA you have companies like "ABC Financing" (real name) that process majority of membership for most of the gyms I ever visited, including LA Fitness, Golds Gym, Balleys Total Fitness. The way it works (cause I tried) is that you call (or in bank to dispute membership) and guess what? they made you wait on the line/ in the branch until they contact ABC customer support that knows exactly what m…

Will banks accept a faxed photograph to rebut a claim that the membership was cancelled?

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#362

Post by ybrah » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:19 AM UTC

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #331

Thank god for that. I made the mistake of joining a Goodlife gym in Canada many moons ago... The place was disgusting. Always crowded. Mould growing in the bathrooms. Stunk very badly, etc... So I stopped going regularly... and one day I was in the area I decided to stop in and cancel my membership. "Oh sorry, you'll need to make an appointment with management in order to cancel." "OK, is a manager in right now?" "Ye…

I had the same experience. I was straight up lied to by the salesmen. I talked about it to my bank, they were aware of the problem as it happens to a lot of people. BMO offered to open a new bank account, and move all my funds to it and close my account that goodlife tricked me into using.

I was told that I could cancel any time after a free trial. It turns out I was lied to. I went to see the salesman again as it was on my way. Telling him that I switched my accounts made shut up and look defeated. Felt so good.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#363

Post by jjeaff » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:23 AM UTC

xmrsilentx wrote: post #280

I've actually closed bank accounts to get away from subscription services. It really is an outrage. What more should it take than telling them you don't want to pay for their service anymore?

I've had a bank (Bank of America), tell me that the only way to stop a recurring, fraudulent ACH charge was to close my account and open a different one.

I did close the account, but saw no reason to reopen one with boa.

The kicker is that a few months later, I get a delinquent negative balance notice from boa. The ACH charge had struck again. I called and asked how in the world I could get an ACH charge on a closed account with $0 in it. The agent said that the account will automatically reopen!!! anytime someone tries to charge it.

They will also automatically charge you overdraft fees, and then an overdraft fee when the overdraft fee bounces, and then a negative balance fee... and an overdraft fee when that one hits.

Just telling the story gets my blood boiling again. Never ever deal with any large corporation if you can help it.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#364

Post by craftyguy » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:25 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #345

nostrademons wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad used to use "I'm unemployed and have no money" on telemarketers, with some success. Though nowadays, in the era of pervasive financing and Wall Street investors that care more about revenue than cash flow, I wonder if that would even work. Maybe "I'm being investigated by the Feds and all of my financial relationships are considered suspect, and so would prefer to have as few of them as possible"?

> My dad used to use "I'm unemployed and have no money" on telemarketers, with some success. I've tried telling the truth, I've tried assertively stating I'm not interested, I've tried so many things... ...at this point, when I pick up a call, I wait for the other side to introduce themselves, and if they call with an unsolicited offer, I just hang up without saying anything. Am I a bad person?

Not at all. My current method is to block all numbers not in my contact list.. if they are important, they'll leave a voicemail. Works surprisingly well, actually.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#365

Post by imroot » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:31 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #312

petilon wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PayPal tried to take money from my checking account because Consumer Reports "autorenewed" my subscription -- without my knowledge or explicit authorization. As soon as I saw this I reported this as an unauthorized transaction on PayPal. But PayPal failed to stop the payment in time, even though at the time of my flagging it was unpaid. I then called BofA and blocked PayPal and that worked. So at the moment I have a…

"I didn't realize PayPal could dip into my checking account any time they wanted to." EBay did this to me once, I think this is an American thing, doesn't happen here in Canada like that.

I had an issue where I accidentally sent an eBay shipment to an old address. It's something that I immediately recognized after clicking "Buy now," and immediately sent a message to the senders; all but one of them corrected the issue and sent the package to the right address, but, one didn't...and it wasn't a big deal -- a $15 package -- but, it was more about the principle...

I followed eBay's "Buyer protection" to the letter...and guess what? I wasn't covered...even after escalating -- and saying, "They have my money and I still don't have my product, I'm trying to understand which part of 'Buyer Protection' I am missing here."

I called my credit card company, explained what was going on, and had my money back in 3 minutes.

Chargebacks are great, whenever they are used effectively...and ebay/paypal is the devil.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#366

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:42 AM UTC

fragsworth wrote: post #348

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #331

Thank god for that. I made the mistake of joining a Goodlife gym in Canada many moons ago... The place was disgusting. Always crowded. Mould growing in the bathrooms. Stunk very badly, etc... So I stopped going regularly... and one day I was in the area I decided to stop in and cancel my membership. "Oh sorry, you'll need to make an appointment with management in order to cancel." "OK, is a manager in right now?" "Ye…

The best thing to do is issue a chargeback. You tell the credit card company that you 1) tried to cancel, and they wouldn't do it; and 2) you did not get any service from them since you tried to cancel. They have to pay you back AND THEY GET CHARGED an additional $20-$30 that your credit card company takes from them as punishment. Please don't abuse chargebacks unless the merchant deserves it, though.

>The best thing to do is issue a chargeback.

They had me sign over my direct withdrawal banking details the day I signed up. I regret doing that.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#367

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:45 AM UTC

ybrah wrote: post #362

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #331

Thank god for that. I made the mistake of joining a Goodlife gym in Canada many moons ago... The place was disgusting. Always crowded. Mould growing in the bathrooms. Stunk very badly, etc... So I stopped going regularly... and one day I was in the area I decided to stop in and cancel my membership. "Oh sorry, you'll need to make an appointment with management in order to cancel." "OK, is a manager in right now?" "Ye…

I had the same experience. I was straight up lied to by the salesmen. I talked about it to my bank, they were aware of the problem as it happens to a lot of people. BMO offered to open a new bank account, and move all my funds to it and close my account that goodlife tricked me into using. I was told that I could cancel any time after a free trial. It turns out I was lied to. I went to see the salesman again as it wa…

>I had the same experience. I was straight up lied to by the salesmen.

My appointment was for 2pm... when the rep showed up at 3pm... his first response was literally "oh hey... you're actually 30 minutes late for our 2:30pm appointment so I'm going to have to cancel.."

I told him I had been waiting there since 2pm (and he had seen me waiting there since 2pm) and then he began to take my fraudulent cancellation data of my moving to another country.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#368

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:47 AM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #352

pandler wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When my turn came... I just said "I'm moving to england and I don't know a single person here who might want to absorb my contract". I actually came here to say the same thing. I realized “I’m moving” was the best way to get results in these situations when I was actually moving out of the country for a bit. It’s like a magical incantation that immediately gets them to stop trying to upsell or retain you, no questi…

Recent renewal contract for LA Fitness has this cover. If you moving away you have to provide some sort of a proof, like new lease contract, job letter etc so that they still will try to find the gym within 15 miles and move you over. I was told in LA Fitness you cannot cancel without any sort of proof if you want to use "moving away" as a reason.

>If you moving away you have to provide some sort of a proof, like new lease contract, job letter etc so that they still will try to find the gym within 15 miles and move you over.

Just tell them you're moving to another continent then... or Antarctica!

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#369

Post by sjwright » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:48 AM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #349

sjwright wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car parks are a scarce resource. If I use a car space, I am monopolising the resource for the duration. Sidewalk ramps are not a scarce resource; my use of them doesn't in any way detract from their use by a disabled person. Any visible use of them ultimately benefits everyone. Online cancellation (compared to telephone cancellation) is like the latter, not the former.

> Sidewalk ramps are not a scarce resource; my use of them doesn't in any way detract from their use by a disabled person. Any visible use of them ultimately benefits everyone. > Online cancellation (compared to telephone cancellation) is like the latter, not the former. Wait, what? No, it's like the former. How do you know these agents handling your cancellation weren't assigned to handle similar cancellations from…

I see the misunderstanding. You're assuming that cancellations would still be handled by humans shuffling paperwork, whereas I'm optimistically assuming cancellation would be handled by computer software, much like it is when you cancel an exclusively online service like Netflix.

Though even in your scenario, you are assuming that a company wouldn't adjust its resources as telephone usage drops and written submissions increases. And yes, the point you make in your second paragraph also applies—a written cancellation request places the time onus on the company rather than the customer.

But either way, it is always a good thing if the methods used by people with disabilities are mainstreamed rather than treated as oddball special exceptions.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#370

Post by ouid » Fri, Jul 06, 2018, 5:55 AM UTC

kccqzy wrote: post #308

jedberg wrote: post #194

One of the philosophies at Netflix was that it should be as easy to cancel as it is to sign up, because you should respect your customers enough not to annoy them into keeping your service. Honestly, it always seemed to me that it was actually easier to cancel than the sign up.

Agreed! One thing that impressed me recently is how easy it is to cancel Symantec's (rather useless) LifeLock service. Just write a sentence on their online support page and my service was cancelled in less than 24 hours. They even sent me an email suggesting things I can do to prevent identity theft without using their service. I know Symantec is unpopular here on HN, because of the certificate authority fiasco and…

Write a sentence on a support page is not simple. You haven't even said what the sentence was.