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U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

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Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#121

Post by deadmetheny »

MatrixAlgebra wrote: post #118
deadmetheny wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the 'personal responsibility' screed in regards to university in America is that more or less my entire generation was hoodwinked into going to college and doing anything and to totally not worry about the cost because loans are available and you'll never get a job that will amount to anything if you don't go to college. Ironically enough, a large portion of my high school class that's doing the best…

Everything you say (except for the bit about me being willfully ignorant or an asshole) is true. The solution to the problem is getting people to be realistic about their prospects. Guidance counselors play a role in this solution. So do parents. And the students themselves. But the solution absolutely does not involve raising taxes to pay for everyone to go to college.

I agree that we need to get people to be realistic, but I disagree that we should just be saying "tough shit" to an entire generation that got thrown under the bus by a mixture of predatory student loan practices and well-meaning adults who did more harm than good attempting to provide guidance.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#122

Post by AnimalMuppet »

snarfy wrote: post #64

> The United States and Mexico are the only countries in the entire study that don’t require any advance notice for individual firings. This is why I never feel bad for quitting a job without giving the expected two week notice. They don't give you any notice when they fire you.

They don't have to, no. But I've been laid off, and given two weeks pay in lieu of notice, and I appreciated it. I don't have to give two weeks notice, either. But those who enjoy receiving courtesy should also give it.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#123

Post by ergothus »

18pfsmt wrote: post #120
ergothus wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever you say on this does not line up with reality. This sounds like you refuse to consider that you could be wrong. Is there evidence that would convince you, or will you simply decide any evidence is wrong and find a new justification? I could be wrong (feel free to prove me so! ;) ) and there is nothing wrong with being convicable-but-unconvinced (as I currently am about the superiority of the US healthcare…

Why is this a competition and quest for superiority? The US is very different from its founding principles, priorities, and government structure. Comparing on just the basis of healthcare costs reduces these complex differences to simple sound bytes and obliterates any nuance. This is not healthy for discussion.

You are correct that there are cases where the nuances make it impossible to have one be "superior" to another, and I'm not arguing otherwise.

That does not mean that some systems can't be objectively worse than a collection of others. I also never brought up costs - healthcare outcomes matter, because...health.

I never made it a quest for superiority - I insisted that everyone participating in a discussion should be in a place where they CAN be convinced of some points - arguing from a place of facts, not unshakeable emotion.

To do otherwise is unhealthy for discussion.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#124

Post by AnimalMuppet »

MatrixAlgebra wrote: post #82
finaliteration wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get to keep a greater portion of their income I always see this come up during discussions about how the US compares to other developed countries. I think the mentality is slightly different in the EU. If you were raised knowing that your income was going to be taxed at 50% but you also got free healthcare, education, welfare assistance, etc., you’d probably learn to value those things over buying a bigger TV…

The problem with free education is that as more people become educated, the signaling effect of education becomes diluted. So the Europeans are paying for something that decreases in real value the more that people have access to it. That's a self defeating policy, especially since it encourages people to remain in academia for significantly longer than they would otherwise, because hey, it's paid for by the taxpayer…

> The problem with free education is that as more people become educated, the signaling effect of education becomes diluted. So the Europeans are paying for something that decreases in real value the more that people have access to it.

This assumes that the only value of education is the signaling value. I strongly disagree with that assumption.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#125

Post by MatrixAlgebra »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #124
MatrixAlgebra wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with free education is that as more people become educated, the signaling effect of education becomes diluted. So the Europeans are paying for something that decreases in real value the more that people have access to it. That's a self defeating policy, especially since it encourages people to remain in academia for significantly longer than they would otherwise, because hey, it's paid for by the taxpayer…

> The problem with free education is that as more people become educated, the signaling effect of education becomes diluted. So the Europeans are paying for something that decreases in real value the more that people have access to it. This assumes that the only value of education is the signaling value. I strongly disagree with that assumption.

For most it is. For some it is not.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#126

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jellicle wrote: post #53
yvrev wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that's why its economy is so much more dynamic than European economies What do you mean with more dynamic?

"Dynamic" is a word intended to invoke the idea that the USA is young, fast-moving, growing, while Europe is old, slow, near-death. It doesn't have any meaning other than to invoke this common US belief. It's part of the American exceptionalism story.

No, it has a real meaning. How many new businesses are started each year in the US vs the EU? For an existing company, how easy is it to enter a new line of business? How easy is it to hire new workers?

Those things are how dynamic the economy is. It's hard to measure in a rigourous way, but in the US it is distinctly easier for a business to start/expand than it is in the EU.

Digression, so I can get shot at from all sides: This dropped under Obama. Again, it's hard to put concrete numbers on it, but things started happening more slowly - I suspect because regulation became more onerous.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#127

Post by braythwayt »

yodon wrote: post #56
braythwayt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody here will come to the conclusion they better leave to the EU because they'd be better there If not the EU, there is this fairly European country that shares timezones with the US and has a reasonable tech scene going on, and you can actually drive back and forth between the US and this country across the longest undefended border in the world. It used to be one of the US's best friends and strongest allies.…

As a general note, it’s better to not use code formatting for quotes because it makes the quotes unreadable on mobile

I am deeply disappointed to hear that there is a feature baked into HN that is unreadable on mobile.

But now that I know... I'll pay attention.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#128

Post by snarfy »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #122
snarfy wrote: post #64

> The United States and Mexico are the only countries in the entire study that don’t require any advance notice for individual firings. This is why I never feel bad for quitting a job without giving the expected two week notice. They don't give you any notice when they fire you.

They don't have to, no. But I've been laid off, and given two weeks pay in lieu of notice, and I appreciated it. I don't have to give two weeks notice, either. But those who enjoy receiving courtesy should also give it.

I do give the two week notice, but it's out of courtesy, not guilt.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#129

Post by mnm1 »

virmundi wrote: post #33

What I don't understand, and you may say that it's the intrenched powers keeping the status quo, is why the US picks such poor implementations of certain ideas. The article mentions low collective bargaining. Our model, as an American, is pretty much one union per vertical. There is the Teamsters. There are no unions that compete with the Teamsters. I believe that Germany has unions that fight each other for contract…

Profit. Profit. And more profit. The profit of corporations here in the US is the most important pursuit by government, even when it comes at the expense of jobs or even human lives. Nothing will stand in its way. If you take a closer look at why we have the worst of the worst ideas implemented in the worst way, you'll see it's because someone or some corporation is making a ton of money at the expense of everyone else. This is not an inherent property of capitalism, it's how the US chose to implement its version. Put simply, humans are second-class entities in this system and only the profits of the rich/corporations are first-class entities. When you put this idea into a country built on war, colonialism (carried out towards others), slavery, and oppression, the current status quo should not be surprising.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#130

Post by r00fus »

gota wrote: post #101
abritinthebay wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flawed premise. The lack of a sane social safety net and of a 1st world healthcare system affects everyone in the US. Yes, being well paid in tech helps alleviate some of the issues due to them being absorbed by money, essentially, but that is itself an effect on the spending power & mobility of the individual. The US has effectively mortgaged and remortgaged is population and has not been keeping up on maintaining i…

Being well payed is supposed to alleviate these issues to the point where it wouldn't normally justify moving _because of those issues_. You can move because a certain aspect is more appealing to you, as is the case with vacation days for another commenter, for example, but that makes it more a particular case rather than a general trend.

But being well payed means the prices go up for everything consummately for the area you live in.

So any gains in living improvements are offset.

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