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Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

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Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#91

Post by chronic821 »

smnrchrds wrote: post #58
toomuchtodo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that emulation be prioritizing shareholder returns over everything else (those profits have come at the expense of the environment and US worker pay and benefits)? As an American, I implore Europe to not make the same mistakes we have in the name of unbridled capitalism. Defend the quality of life you have that we foolishly relinquished.

Agreed. If all worker protection laws (minimum wage, holiday, overtime, safety regulations, etc.) are repealed tomorrow, there would be a huge jump in S&P500. If America does this, should Europe follow suit lest it falls behind? It is best to maximize quality of life for citizens, not total stock market index.

> It is best to maximize quality of life for citizens, not total stock market index.

Feel free to relocate if you're not pleased with the quality of life where you currently live.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#92

Post by chronic821 »

throwawayee wrote: post #34
TekMol wrote: post #2

The web is becoming more and more fragmented. I wonder where this will lead to. Europe seems to fall behind the US at an accelerating pace. During the last two decades, Europe already failed to take part in building the internet. Now Europeans all use US services. Amazon, Ebay, Facebook, Google, Dropbox, AirBnB, Uber... This was due to the culture of Europes entrepreneurs which is often "bureaucracy first, product la…

> Now Europeans all use US services. Amazon, Ebay, Facebook, Google, Dropbox, AirBnB, Uber... Mobile is very popular now. Most of the mobile hardware is China-based. Now most Europeans and Americans use Chinese hardware. Is the US and EU falling behind? Entrepreneurs will look for business given the current laws and opportunities. The data-mining business is just not a way to go now in the EU, with all the legal over…

> Is the US and EU falling behind?

Yes. And also in AI deployment.

Source: Am American.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#93

Post by thecleaner »

edanm wrote: post #86
Flimm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the argument would be that those companies launched in the USA first, were successful there, and then had enough capital and resources to launch in the tougher more fragmented European markets.

That argument is probably correct. Here in Israel, which is often considered one of the closest "startup capitals" to Silicon Valley, what almost any new company will do is just lunch in the US, since it's an easy market. Most wouldn't launch in Israel, since it's such a small market (8 million people). A few will launch in Europe, but because of all the issues mentioned above (different laws, languages, cultures, et…

This is a very good strategy. I guess it should be hard to execute but once you perfect it basically the small market problems are gone. Any idea whats the general way startups go about doing that ? Also how do you immigrate to Israel (:D) ?

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#94

Post by thecleaner »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #84
TekMol wrote: post #2

The web is becoming more and more fragmented. I wonder where this will lead to. Europe seems to fall behind the US at an accelerating pace. During the last two decades, Europe already failed to take part in building the internet. Now Europeans all use US services. Amazon, Ebay, Facebook, Google, Dropbox, AirBnB, Uber... This was due to the culture of Europes entrepreneurs which is often "bureaucracy first, product la…

I don't think all of your last paragraph belongs together. The Internet works better without the proposed (or recent) regulations, because they're all about securing wealthy corporations' money-making ability at the expense of society. But the rest? > Now that we lost the web, how will we avoid the same with AI? (...) How will we avoid losing biotech? Will the same happen to our bodies that happened to our data? Will…

> AI and biotech are two areas where we really need close regulatory oversight, to keep all the "move fast and break things" startup superstars at bay

If this is a pun, its a very good one.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#95

Post by aries1980 »

adilmoujahid wrote: post #76
ajmurmann wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to blame European lawmakers. However, Europe is a much harder market to operate in with our without laws that add bureaucratic overhead. Europe is really several much smaller markets. If you want to launch your startup in Europe you are likely only going to initially launch in let's say the French or German market. To get to the other markets you have not only to translate your product, but redo marketing,…

How can you explain that most Europeans use US services: Amazon, Ebay, Facebook, Google, Dropbox, AirBnB, Uber?

These are not just US services. They are isolated to one specific location, where the capital of talent and finance met. There are reasons why these companies didn't emerge in Idaho or Arkansas. Europe had its own issue at the era when the current VCs emerged: the Soviets were still there, Britain had way more people beneath the poverty line, Norway hasn't found its oil yet, etc. But we are catching up.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#96

Post by edanm »

thecleaner wrote: post #93
edanm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument is probably correct. Here in Israel, which is often considered one of the closest "startup capitals" to Silicon Valley, what almost any new company will do is just lunch in the US, since it's an easy market. Most wouldn't launch in Israel, since it's such a small market (8 million people). A few will launch in Europe, but because of all the issues mentioned above (different laws, languages, cultures, et…

This is a very good strategy. I guess it should be hard to execute but once you perfect it basically the small market problems are gone. Any idea whats the general way startups go about doing that ? Also how do you immigrate to Israel (:D) ?

It's usual to start a company here in Israel, then have one office (or one person, or a salesperson) in the States. So development will continue in Israel, but product/sales/management will be in the States.

That's by no means the only way, but it's a common one.

There are a few accelerators/etc who specialize in helping Israeli companies approach the US market and get exposed to Silicon Valley.

Other than that, most of the problems are kind of the same as with any startup - trying to build something people want. The biggest issue is if "things people want" is different in Israel and the States, and that's why exposure to the US market right from the start is so important.

As for immigrating to Israel - I don't really know much about the topic. If you're Jewish, it's incredibly easy, but if you're not, then I have no idea how the process looks like. Sorry.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#97

Post by petre »

adilmoujahid wrote: post #79
gregorygoc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single company you named targets for European markets, thus Europeans use them.

I got that, but the previous comment argues that the heterogeneity of the European market is the main reason for the difficulty of launching successful companies rather than European lawmakers. This argument doesn't explain the success of American companies in Europe.

The lack of equaly competitive European offerings is to blame. Tax, regulatory and bureaucratic overhead is to blame for the former. Most of the interesting European tech is done in universities and dies there. Americans also have a much more pragmatic attitude towards business.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#98

Post by realusername »

StavrosK wrote: post #23
TekMol wrote: post #2

The web is becoming more and more fragmented. I wonder where this will lead to. Europe seems to fall behind the US at an accelerating pace. During the last two decades, Europe already failed to take part in building the internet. Now Europeans all use US services. Amazon, Ebay, Facebook, Google, Dropbox, AirBnB, Uber... This was due to the culture of Europes entrepreneurs which is often "bureaucracy first, product la…

> Laws that put Europe behind the rest of the world in how easy it is to build online services It is, indeed, inconvenient to consider the rights of the users when building a service, especially when they aren't the ones who pay you for it. Still, I'm not sure it's such a bad idea.

This law is only about copyright. I'm all for supporting user privacy with the GDPR but I don't want to support outdated copyright holders with stupid taxes.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#99

Post by realusername »

skookumchuck wrote: post #62
toomuchtodo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that emulation be prioritizing shareholder returns over everything else (those profits have come at the expense of the environment and US worker pay and benefits)? As an American, I implore Europe to not make the same mistakes we have in the name of unbridled capitalism. Defend the quality of life you have that we foolishly relinquished.

> those profits have come at the expense of the environment and US worker pay and benefits Have they? I don't think that's clear at all.

Yes they had, the US is lagging behind on worker metrics on the developed world (just maybe not in salaries).

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#100

Post by chopin »

blfr wrote: post #51
StavrosK wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get a GDPR interstitial allowing you to opt out of tracking. I'm not sure how you could adblock your way out of Foursquare selling your location to advertisers.

I already opted out of tracking by blocking the vast majority of trackers. All that without clicking through a single warning or receiving a single email. I have also opted out of Foursquare (and Facebook, and many other services of very dubious value) by not using it. The main obstacle that stops Foursquare from selling my location history is not having anything to sell. If, on the other hand, that opting out requir…

You can't not use Facebook unless you block also access to their servers; they have content on the majority of websites.
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