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Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

chinafile.com

211–220 of 258 posts

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#211

Pretty much. One of the most strange things I experience in America is the insistence that America is somehow the most sexist / racist country. Oh boy! When the current generation of social justice from America floods its banks and arrives in Asia there is going to be an ugly reckoning. I think the idea that many of China’s troubles (corruption / pollution / freedom reductions) are a byproduct of the extreme rapid mo…

It's always easy to tell someone they have it good when we all live on a power law. Just tell them to look a notch down and see someone half their height, just as long as they don't look up at you and see your waist. The entire structure of the American economy and the attitudes it uses to keep its subjects in check are of this form. In many ways, the US is advanced but in many ways it also lags other places, namely…

>In many ways, the US is advanced but in many ways it also lags other places, namely in Europe.

There is an equal or higher amount of racism in Europe. We may not have as much of the american black type but the cultural and ethnic divide with so many countries as well as the centuries of history has created a very complex situation. Eastern Europe is particularly bad with antisemitism for example. Southern Europe( e.g. Greece) has seen a big rise in fascism( the "hate all outsiders" type). I know immigrants who died in Germany by neo-nazi attacks. The list goes on and on...

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#212

is it all that different in the USA? It's certainly the stereotype we see in movies for wall street. Not having worked there I have no first hand experience. When I ask friends that have they tell me "oh the stories I could tell" but they don't actually tell.

Surely in the past, even at seemingly boring engineering companies. You used to hear about all kinds of stuff going on in the office. People getting blackout drunk at company Christmas parties, drugs in the restroom, co-workers banging each other in the conference rooms.. then all of a sudden, you didn’t hear about it anymore. Whoosh, it was gone! I entered the workplace as this stuff seemed to be dying down and just…

Companies have their myths and legends too.

The truth is most likely that that boring company has always been a boring company, with not much happening. Still, sometimes, people fuck at work, drink a little too much at parties, and drugs exist. These things happen occasionally and sometimes, these events surface, get mixed up, amplified, and you get stories of orgies.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#213
post #181
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> employees hooking up with each isn't unusual Of course they do. Employees are not slaves. They are free to bond as they like.

Isn't this a cultural difference in the US that's different from Europe, in that colleagues don't get involved?

It's extremely common, they just keep it quiet from HR. If they end up getting married it becomes known and is acceptable in the open.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#214
post #12

AFAIK, many foreigners [read: other Asians as well as a sprinkling of non-Asians] (as well nationals from outside a city but who do business in said city) who are married have either "second wives[1]" in these alternate city offices or they have their marriages die in said places. It has some intriguing aspects, such as the children of the "first wife" are often seen as more legitimate. Also often the wives tolerate…

Yes, the first family has more status and usually will be the ones that get the bulk of the inherited wealth. It seems to be sort of expected that once you reach a certain level in your business life, you will get a mistress. This is so prevalent in the Philippines that the family law concerning whether or not you can use the last name of your father is explicitly spelled out.

I wouldn't want the last name of someone that is expected to and has a mistress regardless of their level in business... They dishonored that name.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you haven't been to UK or France recently ;) Being PC doesn't mean not being racist. They will keep their thoughts to themselves and will not let you know directly. But behind your back, oh boy...

To be fair, that's a common thing in the US too, it's just people can't be overt about it.

You mean “until recently” right? People have stopped even using “I’m not racist but...” when that was much more common a few years or so back. The political climate and subtle language has changed everywhere. It’s tough to notice as a white person but if you’re in the South and aren’t white the differences are obvious even once you go into suburbs.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#216

Pretty much. One of the most strange things I experience in America is the insistence that America is somehow the most sexist / racist country. Oh boy! When the current generation of social justice from America floods its banks and arrives in Asia there is going to be an ugly reckoning. I think the idea that many of China’s troubles (corruption / pollution / freedom reductions) are a byproduct of the extreme rapid mo…

This is so true. Living in Southern China, things are done a certain way, many young women want the "good life" as they perceive it, with all its trappings, and that means becoming mistresses, KTV girls, and everything in between. With a dirth of good paying jobs, people go where the money is. There is a saying, "cry in the back of a BMW vs. laugh on the back of a bicycle". Much more pragmatism here when you don't have to deal with the judeo-christian restraints. Not judging, it is what it is.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW there is much disapproval in East Asia of these antics, and the guanxi culture emanating from China. Sadly American business culture seems to be also drinking these guanxi- and gravitas -obsessed kool aids, and less disapproving (from what I have seen) than East Asia. Others who are more connected and experienced would know more than I do.

> FWIW there is much disapproval in East Asia of these antics, and the guanxi culture emanating from China. "Disapproval" in the same way that some groups were for tee-totalling in the US. Some small minority is against the practices, but they are extremely prevalent all across Asia (and China has little to do with it, besides being the new big customer in lots of those cases -- Japanese do the same kind of stuff, Ko…

I don't know, corruption and prostitution is pretty easy to find in SEA and China, even in SG, but it's not that way in East Asia in my experience.

Even in Hong Kong I find you're likely to run into people who say something like: "Mainlanders just want to be successful through making some deals with their friends, we aren't like that."

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#218
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, cheating involves lying. A spouse is explicitly or at least implicitly expecting the other part no to lie about extra relations. If lying about those extra relations in this context doesn't makes you a bad person, then I don't know what is.

Logical fallacy. Doing one bad thing does not make one a "bad person" if such a thing even exists. If the alternative is to break up a family so the cheater can be 'honest' with him-/herself, is a lie and a happy family worse than a broken family? Stop seeing things black and white.

I don't believe in happy relationships based on lies. The deception will always affect the relationship.

- If someone wants to believe the lies, then in order to avoid discovering the truth, they will keep the relationship intentionally superficial.

- If someone doesn't want to believe the lies, they will discover the truth sooner or later and they will just be acting through life.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW there is much disapproval in East Asia of these antics, and the guanxi culture emanating from China. Sadly American business culture seems to be also drinking these guanxi- and gravitas -obsessed kool aids, and less disapproving (from what I have seen) than East Asia. Others who are more connected and experienced would know more than I do.

Isn't this pretty common in East Asia though? I've heard similar stories about South Korea, and the salaryman culture there is supposed to be pretty bad.

[deleted]

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW there is much disapproval in East Asia of these antics, and the guanxi culture emanating from China. "Disapproval" in the same way that some groups were for tee-totalling in the US. Some small minority is against the practices, but they are extremely prevalent all across Asia (and China has little to do with it, besides being the new big customer in lots of those cases -- Japanese do the same kind of stuff, Ko…

I don't know, corruption and prostitution is pretty easy to find in SEA and China, even in SG, but it's not that way in East Asia in my experience. Even in Hong Kong I find you're likely to run into people who say something like: "Mainlanders just want to be successful through making some deals with their friends, we aren't like that."

>Even in Hong Kong I find you're likely to run into people who say something like: "Mainlanders just want to be successful through making some deals with their friends, we aren't like that."

Isn't Hong Kong known for it's prostitution scene?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Hong_Kong#Hist...

I think what those HKese wanted was to distinguish themselves from their more uncultivated mainlanders (like a yankee vs redneck thing, but with being an ex-British Colony thrown in).

Otherwise, HK has long before uniting with China been known as a haven for prostitution, smuggling, drugs, and so on. The archetypical "seedy harbor town". I doubt very much has changed since...

Then there's the westerners there, that could be even worse:

"The first time I walked down the main drag in Wan Chai in Hong Kong, I couldn't believe what I saw; all the mama bars there and prostitutes openly in the street outside trying to get guys to go in. Within the first week I'd already been offered cocaine, though I didn't take it at that stage. When I did, it was easy to get. I know 100 guys between the ages of 20 and 50, and I'd say around 30 of them were regular cocaine users. Not all were working in banking, but most were, of the ones I knew. They were all Westerners."

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/03/world/asia/hong-kong-bank...

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