Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

chinafile.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 258 posts

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#101

Post by drollcrops »

setr wrote: post #87
merinowool wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are not wired for monogamy. It is like saying you might be bad person because you breathe. In a relationship this is a mutual effort to resist those needs, but failing to do so doesn't make you bad.

I find it hard to imagine most social norms, and much of what we consider to be good/bad behavior, is reliant on what we're "wired" towards; influenced by, sure, but I would imagine most of it is along the lines of " regardless of human nature, this is the way we should operate". Respecting monogamy, at least in America, is one of those things: regardless of how we naturally would like to behave, we are expected to (…

> Respecting monogamy, at least in America, is one of those things: regardless of how we naturally would like to behave, we are expected to (and promise to) respect the sanctity of marriage.

When did residing in a particular nation-state define such specific moral boundaries? Are you saying if I move to China I can cheat on my spouse because that's how things are done there? It seems you are applying your own morals to 300 million members of a very diverse group of people.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#102

Post by jacobush »

setr wrote: post #87
merinowool wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are not wired for monogamy. It is like saying you might be bad person because you breathe. In a relationship this is a mutual effort to resist those needs, but failing to do so doesn't make you bad.

I find it hard to imagine most social norms, and much of what we consider to be good/bad behavior, is reliant on what we're "wired" towards; influenced by, sure, but I would imagine most of it is along the lines of " regardless of human nature, this is the way we should operate". Respecting monogamy, at least in America, is one of those things: regardless of how we naturally would like to behave, we are expected to (…

And dare I say it... not only "one of those abilities that make humans as a species notable", but

...one of those abilities that make humans as a species noble.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#103

Post by drollcrops »

jackvalentine wrote: post #13
forkLding wrote: post #2

I see this as an East Asian phenomenon, I believe Koreans and Japanese do this to a certain degree as well as certain other East Asian groups. I've heard Russians do bathhouse deals as well although I could be wrong and there is also the finance sector's strip club visits with their clientele that I've heard of ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-12/it-s-clos... ). It seems so weird to see people have t…

> What advantage does it hold over normal sales? Same reason as gangs requiring a new initiate to kill someone. If you have someone expose themselves doing something taboo and you yourself do it too, then a mutual bond is built. The article says as much.

It's far more simple than that. Many men absolutely love sex with new women. Humans are heavily social, and moral boundaries are strongly influenced by those that surround them. It is much easier to break certain moral boundaries when those around you also break them, and this gives men an opportunity to fulfill their desires.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#104

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #100
hackits wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I was making is you're making a moral judgement based on your upbringing to a different culture that has different cultural normal around sex and Business. In essence you're putting your moral judgement above the men you're associating with. Do you really believe their wives and girlfriends are princesses who are innocent little delicate snowflakes that need your manly protection? You're getting played my f…

You've broken the HN guidelines by making this personal. We've warned you about this before. If you do it again we will ban you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[deleted]

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#105

Post by noobermin »

zergleader wrote: post #19

Pretty much. One of the most strange things I experience in America is the insistence that America is somehow the most sexist / racist country. Oh boy! When the current generation of social justice from America floods its banks and arrives in Asia there is going to be an ugly reckoning. I think the idea that many of China’s troubles (corruption / pollution / freedom reductions) are a byproduct of the extreme rapid mo…

It's always easy to tell someone they have it good when we all live on a power law. Just tell them to look a notch down and see someone half their height, just as long as they don't look up at you and see your waist. The entire structure of the American economy and the attitudes it uses to keep its subjects in check are of this form.

In many ways, the US is advanced but in many ways it also lags other places, namely in Europe. In other ways it's better. I think if you take an every day liberal or social justice advocate, you'll find that they may be surprised at the level of racism and sexism that pervades other countries, specifically in Asia. But, I don't think you'll find that attitude from activists, academics and others who try to be informed about these things. They know it is the structure of things as they stand and as you said, there is a strong chance that these issues will become important elsewhere as they too find they must deal with the intrinsic contradictions in their society.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#106

Post by lagadu »

kerng wrote: post #36
duxup wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck in the US 20 years ago, a coworker of mine was assigned to a job where his first account was some old school east coast bank. One night dude calls "OMG man we are at dinner and the sales guy didn't show up so it's just me and them and they want to hit the strip clubs a couple blocks away after this." I had no good advice as I was a n00b too so I told him to call his boss. He was told "keep them happy" so he spen…

I think this is not uncommon, even nowadays. Noone likes to admit it because being politically correct and stuff. Even at company parties at big corporations, some Sales and Marketing folks tend go a bit overboard - and employees hooking up with each isn't unusual during such festivities either.

> Even at company parties at big corporations, some Sales and Marketing folks tend go a bit overboard - and employees hooking up with each isn't unusual during such festivities either.

Heh, you should see company parties in northern Europe.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#107

Post by sewer_bird »

drollcrops wrote: post #103
jackvalentine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What advantage does it hold over normal sales? Same reason as gangs requiring a new initiate to kill someone. If you have someone expose themselves doing something taboo and you yourself do it too, then a mutual bond is built. The article says as much.

It's far more simple than that. Many men absolutely love sex with new women. Humans are heavily social, and moral boundaries are strongly influenced by those that surround them. It is much easier to break certain moral boundaries when those around you also break them, and this gives men an opportunity to fulfill their desires.

It can be both. The article says there's the idea of sussing out that the different businessmen are "the same kind of person" with similar 'desires'. That's why the article mentions cases of men trying to signal wanting to have wanton sex, but actually going to lengths to not engage in it.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#108

Post by erikb »

PakG1 wrote: post #39

A few female entrepreneurs, however, explicitly reject the values pushed by businessmen. “One of my husband’s business friends got married just two years ago,” explained Li, in her early 40s, who co-owns a steel business with her husband, “We went to his wedding. But when we hosted an event last year, he came with a young girl who was obviously his mistress. I told my husband that if he cheats on his wife only after…

> As women get more powerful in society

Probably not gonna happen in China. Just google around to see how #metoo was turned down in mainland at least.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#110

Post by erikb »

mc32 wrote: post #12

AFAIK, many foreigners [read: other Asians as well as a sprinkling of non-Asians] (as well nationals from outside a city but who do business in said city) who are married have either "second wives[1]" in these alternate city offices or they have their marriages die in said places. It has some intriguing aspects, such as the children of the "first wife" are often seen as more legitimate. Also often the wives tolerate…

> often the wives tolerate each other

I don't think so. They'll not fight the man, because the man is the source of money and social security. But they'll certainly fight each other, including physical battles in the parking lot.

Post reply on HN