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Average annual hours worked per country

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Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#61

Post by stevesimmons »

schnevets wrote: post #53
stevesimmons wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some "anecdata" from my 6 years working in the Netherlands: * 4 day weeks are very common: I worked for a Dutch Bank for 3 years. Virtually all the Dutch "full time" staff worked 4 day weeks. The deal was work 10% less (36 instead of 40 hours), extend the working day a notional one hour on Monday to Thursday, and take every Friday off. Not bad for a 10% reduction in salary. And since everyone does it - even…

The ZZP idea is particularly intriguing to me. Do you think this is a direct result of the strong social net, or a sense of independence that existed in Dutch culture before benefits?

An additional factor is employment laws give strong protection to full time workers. As the economy recovered after the 2008 financial crisis, employers found it cheaper and less risky to use more flexworkers.

Flexworkers come in two main categories:

- Uitzendkracht - agency workers, hired via an employment bureau such as Adecco, Randstat.

- ZZP-ers - often independent consultants, in many cases starting with a former employer as their initial client.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#62

Post by RWSen »

schnevets wrote: post #53
stevesimmons wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some "anecdata" from my 6 years working in the Netherlands: * 4 day weeks are very common: I worked for a Dutch Bank for 3 years. Virtually all the Dutch "full time" staff worked 4 day weeks. The deal was work 10% less (36 instead of 40 hours), extend the working day a notional one hour on Monday to Thursday, and take every Friday off. Not bad for a 10% reduction in salary. And since everyone does it - even…

The ZZP idea is particularly intriguing to me. Do you think this is a direct result of the strong social net, or a sense of independence that existed in Dutch culture before benefits?

It's the equivalent of working as a contractor. The main benefit is that you pay less taxes into the social welfare system, primarily a ZZP'er doesn't have to pay into a pension fund. The government tries to make being a ZZP'er advantageous, as it is perceived as being great for the economy.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#63

Post by Fnoord »

schnevets wrote: post #53
stevesimmons wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some "anecdata" from my 6 years working in the Netherlands: * 4 day weeks are very common: I worked for a Dutch Bank for 3 years. Virtually all the Dutch "full time" staff worked 4 day weeks. The deal was work 10% less (36 instead of 40 hours), extend the working day a notional one hour on Monday to Thursday, and take every Friday off. Not bad for a 10% reduction in salary. And since everyone does it - even…

The ZZP idea is particularly intriguing to me. Do you think this is a direct result of the strong social net, or a sense of independence that existed in Dutch culture before benefits?

A lot of ZZPers aren't really self employed. As an example, an Uber driver would be a ZZPer therefore avoiding certain rights and laws a normal employee would have. Another example would be MLM such as a Tupperware salesman. They also don't get pension.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#64

Post by roel_v »

schnevets wrote: post #53
stevesimmons wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some "anecdata" from my 6 years working in the Netherlands: * 4 day weeks are very common: I worked for a Dutch Bank for 3 years. Virtually all the Dutch "full time" staff worked 4 day weeks. The deal was work 10% less (36 instead of 40 hours), extend the working day a notional one hour on Monday to Thursday, and take every Friday off. Not bad for a 10% reduction in salary. And since everyone does it - even…

The ZZP idea is particularly intriguing to me. Do you think this is a direct result of the strong social net, or a sense of independence that existed in Dutch culture before benefits?

What 'strong social net' are people referring to in this thread? As an independent contractor ('zzp'), you don't get unemployment benefits, no insurance against not being able to work and you have to get your own health insurance like everyone else. 'Bijstand'? I mean, that's food stamp level, and you can't have any assets to be eligible in the first place.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#65

Post by tpeo »

hectormalot wrote: post #4
betadreamer wrote: post #2

Keep in mind that this is showing the "reported" hours, which can be misleading. For example it shows that people in US works more than Japan but I know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more. However, since it is a cultural thing and they expect you to work long hours, no one reports overtime. I even heard that you can get fired if you report it.

Also keep in mind that the numbers are not corrected for part-time vs full-time figures. e.g. my country (the Netherlands) is listed as 1439 hours vs Mexico 2257 hours annually per worker. You might come to the conclusion that people in Mexico work must longer than in the Netherlands. However, only 17% of people in Mexico work part-time, vs 37% in the Netherlands. Countries with low participation of part-time workers…

>Average annual hours worked is defined as the total number of hours actually worked per year divided by the average number of people in employment per year. Actual hours worked include regular work hours of full-time, part-time and part-year workers, paid and unpaid overtime, hours worked in additional jobs, and exclude time not worked because of public holidays, annual paid leave, own illness, injury and temporary disability, maternity leave, parental leave, schooling or training, slack work for technical or economic reasons, strike or labour dispute, bad weather, compensation leave and other reasons

https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#66

Post by tpeo »

betadreamer wrote: post #2

Keep in mind that this is showing the "reported" hours, which can be misleading. For example it shows that people in US works more than Japan but I know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more. However, since it is a cultural thing and they expect you to work long hours, no one reports overtime. I even heard that you can get fired if you report it.

Reported by whom? What do those quotes mean?

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#67

Post by davnicwil »

matchagaucho wrote: post #36
WhompingWindows wrote: post #5

Unsurprisingly, USA near the top with 1780 hrs worked annually by the average worker, contrast that with the most hours mexico (2257 hrs) and with the least hours Germany (1356) or the Scandanavians like Denmark and Norway (both around ~1400 hours). This is a poor look for the corporate-centric politics of the USA, which has extremely rich citizens and corporations yet which forces very long hours onto its laborers.…

I'd be curious about the definition of "worked" in Mexico. In many 3rd world countries, office and residence are the same place. A shop keeper may keep the door open 12 hours per day, but still enjoy socializing with the neighbors and generally living a stress-free lifestyle.

How does this differ with a shop keeper in, say, western Europe or the US?

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#68

Post by xevb3k »

betadreamer wrote: post #2

Keep in mind that this is showing the "reported" hours, which can be misleading. For example it shows that people in US works more than Japan but I know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more. However, since it is a cultural thing and they expect you to work long hours, no one reports overtime. I even heard that you can get fired if you report it.

If you know it for a fact, could you supply some data that would help back this up?

I’m not saying they don’t, but legally Japanese workers have more paid time off than Americans [1]. Japan also has a larger number of public holidays, which while not legally enforced, are generally taken.

I’d be curious to see data about when people actually arrive at and leave work, and how many holidays are taken.

[1] 10+ days versus 0. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave...

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#69

Post by ekianjo »

betadreamer wrote: post #2

Keep in mind that this is showing the "reported" hours, which can be misleading. For example it shows that people in US works more than Japan but I know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more. However, since it is a cultural thing and they expect you to work long hours, no one reports overtime. I even heard that you can get fired if you report it.

> know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more.

No, you dont know it for a fact, and you should also add that Japanese working in large corporations just STAY late because they have to, not because they are actively working. So "working hours" is not always about work if you consider the time they are physically at work.

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