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With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

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Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#61
post #56

> "Academic researchers say that uptick is a sign of grade inflation, not of smarter students." I don't think this is right. There is good evidence that the highest percentiles of students (the ones populating the competitive colleges mentioned) are indeed smarter, because they have standardized test scores to match. First off, the bar for a PSAT score that gets National Merit recognition has risen significantly for…

Sounds believable, until you consider that the standardize tests are all getting easier, too.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#62

I spent so much time and energy stressing over my very mediocre GPA. I had undiagnosed adhd at the time and struggled immensely with turning things in on time. I usually did above average on tests, but when there are only a few homework assignments in a semester and no-late work policy, one zero really hurts. I was able to work it back up from a 2.2 in sophomore year to a 3.0 by graduation, but that was only because…

All the more reason to not hire based on schooling background as well.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#63
post #57

For college students, I absolutely recommend transferring up if your GPA is above 3.8 and you're attending a lower-tier school. Your alma mater will resonate throughout your career. Your GPA will disappear after your first or second job. Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI.

> Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI. That is a poor example. RPI is an excellent institution. After you get past the top-50 or so schools, reputation matters far less. If you are truly attending a 'low-tier' school then MIT might matter, but for most jobs the vast majority of institutions are only small differences. For my first job post PhD I was told I was selected over folks from Stanford and Princeton: my…

I graduated from RPI summa cum laude, with a dual major, in two honor societies, and went straight to a tech giant, working as a software engineer.

So I have standing to say that RPI has been mismanaged as an institution. Besides my personal experience, RPI's political troubles are well-documented and well-known [1][2][3]. With failed leadership and failed policies, this university has come to sit below CMU which itself is just below MIT.

UT Austin is a fine school from what I heard, and does not seem to have the toxicity of the RPI brand. That is, a second-rate school for second-rate students.

[1]https://www.chronicle.com/article/How-One-Leader-Set-a-Toxic...

[2]https://news.vice.com/article/americas-highest-paid-college-...

[3] https://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Troubled-alumni-sto...

Man, does this list goes on.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. So, it's possible there's an incidental correlation but there's no causation if the phenomena is real. If you've seen how the average kid uses the internet, it's a rather laughable suggestion... there is little overlap between social media entertainment sites and the web of knowledge. The biggest…

Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. If an institution gives grade A based on some objective criteria and students getting the grade C turn out to be successful then methodology of the institution will be considered flawed by the vast majority. Soon, the institution will lose its relevance. If the institutions have to stay relevant,…

>> Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge.

> If an institution gives grade A based on some objective criteria and students getting the grade C turn out to be successful business people then methodology of the institution will be considered flawed by the vast majority. Soon, the institution will lose its relevance.

What you describe is grade inflation.

Grades aren't meant to be predictors of career success, they're meant to be indicators of past academic performance. My understanding is that once upon a time, a "C" grade meant your work was average or typical, which was perfectly respectable. An "A" or "B" mean your academic work was above the norm or outstanding. People could get C's and go on to have successful, non-academic careers (such as in business) with little comment.

With grade inflation, when "average" is an A or B, it's much harder to distinguish the truly academically talented based on their grades, since they're grouped into the same category as average performers.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. So, it's possible there's an incidental correlation but there's no causation if the phenomena is real. If you've seen how the average kid uses the internet, it's a rather laughable suggestion... there is little overlap between social media entertainment sites and the web of knowledge. The biggest…

Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. If an institution gives grade A based on some objective criteria and students getting the grade C turn out to be successful then methodology of the institution will be considered flawed by the vast majority. Soon, the institution will lose its relevance. If the institutions have to stay relevant,…

I don't see what being a successful business person would have to do with learning the material in a course, such as calculus or physics.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#66
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is. Grade inflation is a well known, documented phenomena. Unfortunately I have no time to link the papers on this subject, but if you search, they are there.

Have school grades ever deflated? Or undergone some sort of correction? No citation needed, anecdotes are fine.

At the high school I worked at some years ago we pushed the margins for letter grades up a little. For example, where a C used to be 70-80% it became 72-82%, up to A which is 93-100%. Whether or not that affected the overall GPA distribution I could not say.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#67
post #56

> "Academic researchers say that uptick is a sign of grade inflation, not of smarter students." I don't think this is right. There is good evidence that the highest percentiles of students (the ones populating the competitive colleges mentioned) are indeed smarter, because they have standardized test scores to match. First off, the bar for a PSAT score that gets National Merit recognition has risen significantly for…

Sounds believable, until you consider that the standardize tests are all getting easier, too.

Right, score inflation alongside grade inflation. The administrators of the GMAT have an answer to that: https://www.gmac.com/why-gmac/gmac-news/gmnews/2017/july-201...

It says that it doesn't explain the "conundrum" of increased higher-end scores. But it definitely addresses that it's very unlikely the test has gotten easier, since average scores have remained stable, as they have for the PSAT and ACT.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#68
post #57

For college students, I absolutely recommend transferring up if your GPA is above 3.8 and you're attending a lower-tier school. Your alma mater will resonate throughout your career. Your GPA will disappear after your first or second job. Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI.

> Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI. That is a poor example. RPI is an excellent institution. After you get past the top-50 or so schools, reputation matters far less. If you are truly attending a 'low-tier' school then MIT might matter, but for most jobs the vast majority of institutions are only small differences. For my first job post PhD I was told I was selected over folks from Stanford and Princeton: my…

I'm not sure how strong a counterexample UT Austin is, since it's currently at number 10 in US News rankings [1]. Particularly when it comes to academic jobs, there's a huge disparity in where people did their PhD [2]. But I see this as more an indictment of the academic hiring process than a reflection of quality. For hiring where I am, I don't see any explicit bias against people from particular schools, but I do see a bias of where to look for potential candidates. And I have definitely sat at tables and realized I was the only person not from a top-15 CS grad program.

I do agree with everything else.

[1] https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-sch...

[2] http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2015/02/univers...

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#69
I do a lot of interviews and I am pretty sure that quite a few students are cheating to get high grades.

There is no way that I get a student who has a A average in computer science and then I ask them to do some simple coding and they outright fail.

The some people cheap right in the interview, I step out of the office and then quick come back and I see they have their cell phone out to copy from.

I am sure cheating is partially responsible for grade inflation.

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