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Microsoft Releases 125M Building Footprints in the US as Open Data

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Re: Microsoft Releases 125M Building Footprints in the US as Open Data

#71

Post by endorphone »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #70
endorphone wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be trivial. It should be standardized. It is absolutely bizarre that we need to rely upon commercial companies to map things like streets and buildings when this is very accurately tracked by government. In an ideal world OSM data grids could be delegated to the appropriate governments, where it could have perfect precision with changes, street closures, one ways, redirects, etc.

> It should be standardized No thank you. New York City doesn’t need a federal bureaucracy to be checked into every time a building goes up or a pipeline gets laid. And the level of detail which is necessary for New York would be overkill for rural counties; they have better things to spend their tax dollars on.

A building going up or a pipeline getting laid necessitates an enormous amount of government activities. The idea of having a simple standardized output would be just too onerous is absolute nonsense.

Further, saying that the detail necessary for NYC is overkill for a rural county is just bunk. Yes, of course NYC would have more detail. Do you think a rural county is going to be overloaded plotting their dozen streets?

The whole "better things with tax dollars" bit is really the cherry on the top.

Re: Microsoft Releases 125M Building Footprints in the US as Open Data

#72

Post by endorphone »

rmc wrote: post #68
endorphone wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be trivial. It should be standardized. It is absolutely bizarre that we need to rely upon commercial companies to map things like streets and buildings when this is very accurately tracked by government. In an ideal world OSM data grids could be delegated to the appropriate governments, where it could have perfect precision with changes, street closures, one ways, redirects, etc.

Turning OSM into, essentially a view of local governments would remove the wiki aspect, where anyone can edit it. Additionally, there is enough problems getting the global OSM community to come up with one tagging scheme. If every country made their own stuff, it would not be one map.

Of course it would remove the wiki aspect where a better, canonical source is available. For the same reason that my local library doesn't use a wiki library catalogue. That doesn't prevent the wiki aspect for non-canonical data. I hardly see tagging standardization as a big road block.

Re: Microsoft Releases 125M Building Footprints in the US as Open Data

#73

Post by JumpCrisscross »

endorphone wrote: post #71
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be standardized No thank you. New York City doesn’t need a federal bureaucracy to be checked into every time a building goes up or a pipeline gets laid. And the level of detail which is necessary for New York would be overkill for rural counties; they have better things to spend their tax dollars on.

A building going up or a pipeline getting laid necessitates an enormous amount of government activities. The idea of having a simple standardized output would be just too onerous is absolute nonsense. Further, saying that the detail necessary for NYC is overkill for a rural county is just bunk. Yes, of course NYC would have more detail. Do you think a rural county is going to be overloaded plotting their dozen street…

> * The idea of having a simple standardized output would be just too onerous is absolute nonsense*

This complicated thing is already so complicated, it couldn’t possibly hurt to add even more complexity!

Re: Microsoft Releases 125M Building Footprints in the US as Open Data

#74

Post by ninkendo »

afpx wrote: post #64
reaperducer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like to say that, but in practice it's not true and hasn't been for over a century. It depends on the topic. When it comes to things like interstate commerce, you are correct -- the states don't each have treaties with each other. But when it comes to other things, like education, that's very much a local function. The feds set minimum best practices (enforced by the threat of removing funding), but it's up to…

Assuming that to be true, I would expect there to be localities within the US where laws differ so vastly that they resemble different countries when juxtaposed. Yet, I’ve traveled enough of the US that this would surprise me. (It would be very interesting to experience those two, though!) I think the US shows itself to be pretty homogeneous, with some differences between the rural, suburban, and urban areas, but not…

Go to Las Vegas and then a dry county in Kentucky and note what you're allowed to buy and what you're allowed to do on the streets.

I can smoke weed legally for recreational purposes where I am here. Where I grew up I'd be thrown in jail.

Texas has no zoning laws of any kind. You can build any kind of building for any purpose anywhere (I'm sure there's still restrictions, but there's no zones per se.)

States have wildly different speed limits on highways. Different levels of allowed alcohol.

This is just off the top of my head without googling, I'm sure there's probably even bigger examples as well.

Re: Microsoft Releases 125M Building Footprints in the US as Open Data

#75

Post by reaperducer »

rebuilder wrote: post #42
reaperducer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

laser scanning (by EPA or equivalent) Why would the EPA laser scan buildings? The EPA handles clean air and water. The only entities that have any business laser scanning any building are the county tax assessor and the insurance companies.

Does the US federal government not have a department that handles land survey?

Does the US federal government not have a department that handles land survey?

Land surveying, yes - The USGS.

Building surveying, no. It's the "private" part of "private property."

Unless someone's committed a crime being investigated by a federal agency, the federal government has no right to know what's on my property. And even then there are limits. The feds can look down from a satellite, but so can anyone else. But the feds can't come onto my property and laser measure my house, as was the scenario proposed by the parent commenter.

As I stated earlier, external-only building surveys can be done by the local tax collection agency for the purpose of assessing taxes in places where taxes are assessed based on improvements to the land.

And your insurance company may also want to make similar measurements, but those are usually done only very rarely these days. They were more common in the past when structure fires were more of a problem. (Think Sanborn Maps† and The Great Chicago Fire.)

† https://www.loc.gov/collections/sanborn-maps

Re: Microsoft Releases 125M Building Footprints in the US as Open Data

#76

Post by reaperducer »

endorphone wrote: post #57
reaperducer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be trivial. It should be standardized. Your use of the word "trivial" indicates you've never worked on complex GIS systems. Whether it should be standardized is a matter of debate. Currently, each county or state or municipality uses the software and standard that suits its needs, and more importantly -- it's budget. The GIS needs of New York City are not the same as the GIS needs of Saint George, Utah. Sai…

"Whether it should be standardized is a matter of debate." In the same way that vaccines are `debatable'. To export an accurate, up to date model of roads (and road data) and optionally building layouts should absolutely be the norm. Nor does a standardized export format necessitate using a single uniform GIS solution, of which I've had to inter-operate with a number. The real world digitizes spectacularly well, a lo…

The real world digitizes spectacularly well

No, it doesn't. If it did, then the surveying industry would be out of business. Yet every time a building is permitted in the United States, surveys are done.

Here's an example for a recent project surveyed in Chicago just this year:

West Roosevelt Road; South Clark Street; a line beginning at a point 116 feet north of vacated West 16″‘ Street as measured along the west line of South Clark Street that is westerly 135.20 feet along the arc of a circle having a radius of 375.00 feet concave northerly and whose chord bears north 79 degrees 49 minutes 52 seconds west a distance of 135.20 feet; a line north 69 degrees 46 minutes 04 seconds west a distance of 101.85 feet; a line north 69 degrees 49 minutes 57 seconds west a distance of 26.00 feet; a line along the arc of a circle having a radius of 407.80 feet concave southerly and whose chord bears north 75 degrees 52 minutes 04 seconds west a distance of 85.51 feet a distance of westerly 85.67 feet; a line north 83 degrees 47 minutes 05 seconds west a distance of 164.45 feet; a line north 69 degrees 43 minutes 24 seconds west a distance of 25.16 feet; a line north 43 degrees 07 minutes 24 seconds west a distance of 31.91 feet to a point on the easterly dock line of the former South Branch of the Chicago River; a line south 46 degrees 47 minutes 47 seconds west along the easterly dock line of the former South Branch of the Chicago River a distance of 73.33 feet; a line south 89 degrees 54 minutes 55 seconds west a distance of 32.69 feet; a line south 49 degrees 36 minutes 35 seconds a distance of 46.38 feet; a line north 89 degrees 54 minutes 55 seconds east a distance of 296.25 feet; a line easterly along the arc of a circle having a radius of 375.00 feet concave southerly and whose chord bears south 78 degrees 32 minutes 39 seconds east a distance of 109.97 feet for a distance of 110.36 feet; a line south 69 degrees 46 minutes 04 seconds east a distance o f 136.90 feet; a line easterly along the arc of a circle having a radius of 391.00 feet concave northerly and whose chord bears south 79 degrees 33 minutes 50 seconds east a distance of 135.64 feet for a distance of 136.33 feet; South Clark Street; vacated West 16″‘ Street; a line 155.40 feet west of and parallel to South Clark Street; the north line of vacated West 16″” Street; and the South Branch of the Chicago River

Digitize that.

Source: https://www.chicagoarchitecture.org/2018/05/29/everything-th...

Re: Microsoft Releases 125M Building Footprints in the US as Open Data

#77

Post by endorphone »

reaperducer wrote: post #76
endorphone wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Whether it should be standardized is a matter of debate." In the same way that vaccines are `debatable'. To export an accurate, up to date model of roads (and road data) and optionally building layouts should absolutely be the norm. Nor does a standardized export format necessitate using a single uniform GIS solution, of which I've had to inter-operate with a number. The real world digitizes spectacularly well, a lo…

The real world digitizes spectacularly well No, it doesn't. If it did, then the surveying industry would be out of business. Yet every time a building is permitted in the United States, surveys are done. Here's an example for a recent project surveyed in Chicago just this year: West Roosevelt Road; South Clark Street; a line beginning at a point 116 feet north of vacated West 16″‘ Street as measured along the west li…

You have this somewhat backwards.

Cities have loads of data that define property lines. They could keep it on paper, but more and more they keep it in computers now. Surveyors take that digital data and convert it into its precise real world marks. This has literally nothing to do with whether the real world digitizes well, and if really stretched only proves that it certainly does because that's the entire basis of property grants.

Further, pointing out a massive civic project in the middle of a large city as some sort of counterpoint, when it is in reality still not that complex at all, doesn't make your case.

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