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Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

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Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#241

Post by hw »

As much as I hate plastics, I find that it is here to stay. As consumers, what we can do is to reduce the plastics that we use. Re-use plastic bags. Re-use takeout containers (always have a bunch of them in my car). Reduce purchases of food items that are wrapped in plastic (they are mostly processed food anyway). Buy produce that isn't shrink-wrapped. Don't use a straw for drinks. Don't ask for plastic cutlery when getting takeout.

I do think that some sort of tax on plastic use would help deter and reduce, but not completely eliminate plastic waste. Restaurants should be taxed on every plastic takeout container they use. Manufacturers, food producers should be taxed on plastic packaging. Blue Apron should be taxed for all the plastic containers that they send out to customers.

Maybe Elon Musk would be the new China and ship the world's plastic waste to space. It would cost quite a bit of fuel though so maybe it's not as sustainable or eco-friendly.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#242

Post by ada1981 »

dpkonofa wrote: post #211
freeone3000 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single-stream recycling is a good alternative to this, and has been implemented in Austin. They essentially take your idea to the limit - if someone has to go through it anyway, why not just put it all in one big bin and sort it out later? So they do. Mostly works?

According to the article, that doesn't work at all, though. Not only does the stuff not get sorted properly in the end but things that could have potentially been recycled are now unable to be recycled because they're contaminated. That doesn't sound like a "mostly works" scenario except in the most bare definition of the phrase.

I think it “mostly works” for the company with the cushy contract to provide single stream recycling.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#243

Post by smolder »

darkerside wrote: post #176
jklinger410 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also reminds me, in a way, of the argument I always make about water waste. Yes, it is great to keep your faucet off if you aren't using it. And yes, if enough people keep theirs off, it will make a big impact on water waste. But as an individual, or a neighborhood, you will never waste as much as factory farms, chemical processing, and many other industries. Add to it the fact that these companies produce these…

> so they can enrich themselves That's the only thing I take issue with here. Characterizing this as intentional misconduct muddies the waters. The line between cutting costs and benefiting from an increased share price is long and winding. Don't blame people; examine systems. Where most of the money goes is back to keeping costs low for consumers, the same ones that are conscientiously keeping the tap water off.

Just because you can't easily put the blame on individuals doesn't mean they're not responsible. Our "system" is great at "blame laundering" or obfuscating ethical implications of decisions through diffusion of responsibility and removal of context at different boundaries. But the system itself is not a thing you can blame, as it's orchestrated by people who wanted it to work that way. Leaders who don't act to change the system are shitty leaders, and they are guilty.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#245

Post by ada1981 »

unit91 wrote: post #178
vmarshall23 wrote: post #152

This has long driven me crazy. I have a version of this argument with my wife every few weeks. I live in a city that has three bins: compost, landfill, and recycling, and overall the city (SF) does a really good job apparently of sorting trash. But if you want a system that doesn't break down if someone throws a handful of batteries in the compost bin, then someone or something somewhere still has to sort the trash s…

> I have a version of this argument with my wife every few weeks. You make some good points here no doubt, but recycling is definitely not worth arguing with your wife over. Be loving and overlook her (perceived) faults.

One solution to this problem is for one of you to develop a serious drug habit or to have an affair.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#246

Post by dougmwne »

ada1981 wrote: post #237
roenxi wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remind me again why the 'real cost' of plastic is higher than all the other garbage we put into landfill? I know there is something going on with microplastics or somesuch that I'm not up to date on, but I would have thought that sealing it in a big hole in the ground would be cheap, effective and safe.

Burying garbage in a big hole in the ground is not a sustainable solution.

Maybe it is? We can dig some pretty deep holes. It may not be pretty but seems to work.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#247

Post by gnopgnip »

gaius wrote: post #15
idbehold wrote: post #8

Perhaps we should start doing something like what Taiwan did with their trash: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/separation-anxiety/ > The trucks only accept trash bags officially sanctioned by the government of Taiwan which come in a distinctive blue color, complete with an official seal. The bags range in price and size, from 3 liters to 120 liters. The most popular bag is 25 liters (similar to a tiny bathroom…

which costs about $5 for a pack of 20 I’ve never understood why recycling wasn’t self-sustaining, isn’t there value in the raw material? When I was young reusing was the thing; a glass milk bottle went back to the dairy was sterilised and used again the next day. One bottle, with a recyclable aluminium foil lid, could be used again and again and again. Nowadays we make a glass bottle, use it once, then melt it down a…

You have to look at it holistically. In one system everything is thrown in the trash.

In another system you separate out recyclables to be sold, and to reduce how much trash needs to be disposed of. Now you need multiple bins, you need to ensure that trash is not mixed into the recyclables, different trucks or more trucks, more staff.

The cost of labor, the cost of disposing of trash, the capital costs to implement the system, and the income from recycling all effects whether it is sustainable.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#248

Post by dreamcompiler »

dpkonofa wrote: post #200
dougmwne wrote: post #65

This is a classic externality problem. We can berate consumers all day long to be more diligent in their recycling, but all that finger wagging is for show meant to distract from the real source of the garbage, the manufacturers. Just like the classic "blame the user" mentality, the users were given an impossibly complex system with barely any incentive to get it right. Nothing about the interface is intuitive or dis…

This is such a big part of it and it's amazing that they get away with it. Case in point: Blue Apron. Blue Apron positioned itself as one of the more "recycle-friendly" food delivery services to try and fight the stigma against every delivery having bags upon bags of individually wrapped goods by providing recycling services. As a former Blue Apron customer, I loved that I could separate stuff out (hard plastic, soft…

Blue Apron's cold packs are ridiculous. The goop leaks onto the food, they're a nightmare to dispose of, and they're heavy; probably 75% of the weight of a BA box is the cold packs. If they used dry ice, the boxes would be much lighter weight -- saving on shipping costs -- and they would simply evaporate rather than needing to be trashed.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#249

Post by foobarian »

dpkonofa wrote: post #200
dougmwne wrote: post #65

This is a classic externality problem. We can berate consumers all day long to be more diligent in their recycling, but all that finger wagging is for show meant to distract from the real source of the garbage, the manufacturers. Just like the classic "blame the user" mentality, the users were given an impossibly complex system with barely any incentive to get it right. Nothing about the interface is intuitive or dis…

This is such a big part of it and it's amazing that they get away with it. Case in point: Blue Apron. Blue Apron positioned itself as one of the more "recycle-friendly" food delivery services to try and fight the stigma against every delivery having bags upon bags of individually wrapped goods by providing recycling services. As a former Blue Apron customer, I loved that I could separate stuff out (hard plastic, soft…

I was just fuming at the heavy coolant bags they ship in their packages that are not recyclable and recommended to be thrown in the trash. This is not progress.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#250

Post by ascorbic »

astrodust wrote: post #187
jcoffland wrote: post #99

It's incredible that corporations are allowed to pump out massive quantities of single use plastic and then we blame the consumer for not recycling it. The idea that the solution is to change the habits of billions of people rather than enforce some rules on a few thousand companies is just crazy.

The entire packaging industry is ridiculous. For example: Why do garbage bags come in boxes or bags when they could be stored inside a garbage bag that's folded up properly to contain them?

I'm confused. Don't they come on rolls? The most packaging I've known for garbage bags is a paper label holding the roll together.
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