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Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

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Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#201

Post by folkrav »

unit91 wrote: post #178
vmarshall23 wrote: post #152

This has long driven me crazy. I have a version of this argument with my wife every few weeks. I live in a city that has three bins: compost, landfill, and recycling, and overall the city (SF) does a really good job apparently of sorting trash. But if you want a system that doesn't break down if someone throws a handful of batteries in the compost bin, then someone or something somewhere still has to sort the trash s…

> I have a version of this argument with my wife every few weeks. You make some good points here no doubt, but recycling is definitely not worth arguing with your wife over. Be loving and overlook her (perceived) faults.

I'd argue that having (respectful) arguments is a pretty healthy thing for a couple.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#202

Post by okreallywtf »

dougmwne wrote: post #65

This is a classic externality problem. We can berate consumers all day long to be more diligent in their recycling, but all that finger wagging is for show meant to distract from the real source of the garbage, the manufacturers. Just like the classic "blame the user" mentality, the users were given an impossibly complex system with barely any incentive to get it right. Nothing about the interface is intuitive or dis…

I feel the same thing about renewable energy and climate change - a top down approach could have such massive impact, but a bottom up approach is so difficult. There are thousands of groups (there are literally a dozen probably coordinating together in my mid sized city alone) all trying to do the same work from the bottom up and on the ground with churches, local governments, individuals etc but it requires so much pressure and buy in from your average citizen to get anything done that way.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#203

Post by scythe »

skosch wrote: post #182
vmarshall23 wrote: post #152

This has long driven me crazy. I have a version of this argument with my wife every few weeks. I live in a city that has three bins: compost, landfill, and recycling, and overall the city (SF) does a really good job apparently of sorting trash. But if you want a system that doesn't break down if someone throws a handful of batteries in the compost bin, then someone or something somewhere still has to sort the trash s…

You're not wrong, but home diversion isn't entirely pointless. The best tax-funded downstream sorting system is no match for the moldy lasagna covering the scrap paper in your OmniToss Multi-Bin™.

Moving towards a standard where all food waste is compostable (except, probably, metal cans) seems like a big step forward. Food waste is generally the most unpleasant to handle, so its presence makes sorting the remainder of the stream more difficult. In Japan, some municipalities have a special system for food waste:

https://www.japanfs.org/en/news/archives/news_id027774.html

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#204

Post by peterwwillis »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #144
VWrapper wrote: post #54

-snip, self-censorship for safety-

So because no one recycles in your country, everyone else should adopt your standards and not recycle too?

I think this should be added to the comment guidelines: please don't ask leading, nonconstructive questions as comments.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#205

Post by wutbrodo »

roenxi wrote: post #198
corey_moncure wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>i.e. the consumer choosing the cheapest option This is what he means by "externality". The disposable plastic garbage isn't really the cheapest option. It's just that the real cost of all the garbage isn't priced in at market.

Remind me again why the 'real cost' of plastic is higher than all the other garbage we put into landfill? I know there is something going on with microplastics or somesuch that I'm not up to date on, but I would have thought that sealing it in a big hole in the ground would be cheap, effective and safe.

I'm not an expert but I'd imagine the fact that it doesn't really biodegrade would be a reasonably big factor.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#207

Post by c22 »

technofiend wrote: post #106

Call me crazy but I'd love to see the next round of LEED certifications require any food establishment with seating for dining required to serve with reusable dinnerware and utensils, i.e. plates, forks, knives, spoons, cups and glasses. The amount of plastic wasted by people like me who get lunch from a food court, walk ten feet away to eat lunch and then toss single use items is astounding. Yet there's no other sol…

It's true you can't carry your own plate around and expect restaurants to serve your food on it, but unless you're eating soup this component is often the only one that can be made truly compostable without significant compromise. And you can always reject single-use utensils and rock your own fork.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#208

Post by TooBrokeToBeg »

jklinger410 wrote: post #195
darkerside wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so they can enrich themselves That's the only thing I take issue with here. Characterizing this as intentional misconduct muddies the waters. The line between cutting costs and benefiting from an increased share price is long and winding. Don't blame people; examine systems. Where most of the money goes is back to keeping costs low for consumers, the same ones that are conscientiously keeping the tap water off.

I understand what you are getting at, but it seems like "blame the system" is an effective excuse for capitalism to literally destroy the planet we live on. If you subscribe to the "a fool and his money are soon departed" philosophy, which is essentially like, "well if they want products that destroy the world I will give them that" you are passing the moral accountability buck onto human society in its entirety. We…

> We know that a human is smart

Not every person is smart, nor does that translate into correct behavior. Even herd mentality has limits.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#209

Post by jklinger410 »

robotrout wrote: post #199
johnsnowtho wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and I think their point is that the big manufacturers are just going to waste the water you saved, too.

We still get yellowpages telephone books vomited on our porch to throw away, about twice a year. Three guys in an overloaded car grace us with them, one guy on each side of the street, throwing yellowpages at houses, and one guy driving. All paper recycling does is keep paper prices low enough that these people can afford to print these things and force them on every household in a city. Remind me why I should be rec…

Because you're a good citizen, just doing their part! Maybe if we virtue signal enough, they'll save the dolphins!
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