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Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

fil.forbrukerradet.no

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Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#51

Post by scrollaway »

lancewiggs wrote: post #47
scrollaway wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That flow was really scummy. I remember going through it. The entry point was an email claiming you have to "read and accept the updated policies in order to continue using the site". And the first thing you're presented with was that two-choice "Manage data settings" / "Accept and continue", implying for the user who is less than extremely careful that if you don't "Accept and continue", you won't be able to use the…

By staying at Facebook your friends are explicitly supporting these and other scummy actions. They have decided to hold their noses and prioritise themselves over humanity. Think less of them.

This is a totally inappropriate thing to ask of anyone. Please rethink your view on life.

Edit: Also, that's not what "explicitly" means. I think you meant "implicitly".

Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#52

Post by tyfon »

TheCapeGreek wrote: post #48
walterbell wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need Win10 Enterprise LTSB, even Pro is not enough to get out of Microsoft telemetry capture, including crash dumps (memory with sensitive info), keystrokes, screen grabs.

It used to be that Pro was enough when you could still turn the telemetry off (I seem to remember that being a thing in W10's early days, correct me if I'm wrong). But in the end, why should the user have to spend even more for a feature set that they'll never use to just protect their privacy? Greed and dark patterns are not acceptable.

Can you even buy enterprise as a private person? All I can see on their webpage is "request a quote" and the form requires a business name.

Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#53

Post by walterbell »

tyfon wrote: post #52
TheCapeGreek wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be that Pro was enough when you could still turn the telemetry off (I seem to remember that being a thing in W10's early days, correct me if I'm wrong). But in the end, why should the user have to spend even more for a feature set that they'll never use to just protect their privacy? Greed and dark patterns are not acceptable.

Can you even buy enterprise as a private person? All I can see on their webpage is "request a quote" and the form requires a business name.

There's a 90-day trial, could be useful in a VM: https://www.howtogeek.com/273824/windows-10-without-the-cruf...

Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#54

Post by ckastner »

WorkLifeBalance wrote: post #30
ckastner wrote: post #5

Page 14: [edit: number corrected, thanks] > As the screenshots below illustrate, the Facebook GDPR popup requires users to go into “Manage data settings” to turn off ads based on data from third parties. If the user simply clicks “Accept and continue”, the setting is automatically turned on. This is not privacy by default. Beautiful! A minimal demonstration of a clear violation of the principal of data protection by…

I noticed Twitch is doing the same thing, if you "manage your choices" you get the banner to "manage your choices" on every page load, the only way to get rid of the banner was to "accept" which accepts everything. (I hope it was just a 'bug' but it didn't feel like it.) I don't get it though, if companies are so scared of being fined 4% of revenue that they put up these banners, aren't they inviting the worse end of…

The worst offender I've encountered is imgur.com, where "click here to manage your privacy settings" brings you to a page with literally hundreds of advertisers.

About half are on "allowed" by default. If you want to disallow, you have to select each entry individually.

The other half only specify "requires opt-out", apparently imgur expects you to contact some third party to do so.

How on earth they expect to weasel around the law with this ham-fisted approach is beyond me.

Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#55

Post by rickycook »

scrollaway wrote: post #51
lancewiggs wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By staying at Facebook your friends are explicitly supporting these and other scummy actions. They have decided to hold their noses and prioritise themselves over humanity. Think less of them.

This is a totally inappropriate thing to ask of anyone. Please rethink your view on life. Edit: Also, that's not what "explicitly" means. I think you meant "implicitly".

some people work for charities, some people work for facebook. the employees make the company, and are complicit if they don’t react harshly to decisions made by their board like google employees did... if nobody wants to support the scummy tactics that “the company” is pushing, it won’t get done. sometimes you need to have a spine to get anything changed otherwise we are just heading for a blade runner distopia, and we in the tech industry are pushing us there as fast as our pay cheques can.

people quit google over the military project because they didn’t agree with it. i don’t think it’s crazy to do the same over facebooks disgusting manipulation of their user base.

Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#56

Post by ionised »

minpur wrote: post #10

What a surprise! Microsoft villianised over the decades seems to be better than Google and Facebook. This brings us to the question. Have you paid XX money for a service that doesn’t show ads. Are you happy with it?

Microsoft are no better with their forced telemetry and resetting privacy settings.

They might not be collecting as much as Facebook and Google but god damn they are trying.

Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#57

Post by rickycook »

adventured wrote: post #43
dannyw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Facebook still refuses to let you opt out of personalised advertising based on Facebook activity. This is the most blatant malcompliance with GDPR IMO, when will data protection authorities start fining FB?

> This is the most blatant malcompliance with GDPR IMO, when will data protection authorities start fining FB? The GDPR fans on HN have said over and over again that GDPR wouldn't result in instant fines, that companies would be given a warning and an opportunity to make changes. We'll soon find out if that's true or not.

facebook made their changes, and failed. they’ve played their hand, now it’s time for the law to tell them what utter bull it is. do you think facebook is going to change anything from now?

the point of “no instant fines” is to give companies a chance to change and develop their GDPR systems. if those systems are both complete, and in violation, why shouldn’t they be fined?

Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#58

Post by taneq »

minpur wrote: post #10

What a surprise! Microsoft villianised over the decades seems to be better than Google and Facebook. This brings us to the question. Have you paid XX money for a service that doesn’t show ads. Are you happy with it?

Microsoft got pretty un-evil and then rapidly got very evil again a few years ago. The GWX debacle, advertising built into your OS, forced telemetry, turning one-off purchases into subscriptions, and now maybe the return of Embrace/Extend/Extinguish.

Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#59

Post by zucan »

alkonaut wrote: post #32
janlaureys wrote: post #14

Especially on mobile some of these cookie management screens I've seen lately are HORRIBLE. If you're gonna make me click on every single partner to opt out of their tracking, I'm just not gonna use your site.

Unless every tracking setting is off by default, they are clearly already in violation - so why would they then even bother having settings for it? Why not just track everyone and not ask?

You can fool many users into thinking they gave consent when they haven't. At least these won't resist further.

Re: Norwegian Consumer Council report on how tech companies use dark patterns [pdf]

#60

Post by netsharc »

tyfon wrote: post #29
kazen44 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing holding norway back from full EU membership is fishing rights and a referendum on EU membership. Norway seems to actually accept its current political position inside the EU's sphere of influence just fine.

Right now we are in the worst position. We have to accept all EU rules but we don't have any influence over it. I'd take full membership over that any time but the politicians don't want to risk a 3rd referendum. So we're stuck between the "bark and the wood" as a Norwegian proverb goes.

Don't they prefer to be not in the EU, because they can keep their oil to themselves? (AFAIK if they're in the EU then EU oil companies can ask to drill in their territory: https://www.politico.eu/article/of-crustaceans-and-oil-the-c... ).

So maybe it's better to have no deciding voice but be able to keep all the money.

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