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Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

theguardian.com

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Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#311

Post by shripadk »

icebraining wrote: post #308
shripadk wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you prevent employees from leaving with company data if one copies all the sensitive data onto a pen drive? Does security check the pen drives too? It's actually ridiculous to cast aspersion on the security when their job is to prevent threats. > You think it's appropriate for every employee to be searched before entering a facility because there might be a "terror attack"? How many IT workers are there in the…

So, from your links, nobody was actually killed by terrorists, nor has a security guard actually stopped any terrorist. Meanwhile, you know who actually has killed Infosys employees? A security guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN9MenY2dEs

> So, from your links, nobody was actually killed by terrorists

That is not a justification for no security checks. That's my only argument. If one is willing to go through security checks at malls, airports, movie theaters, sports game at a stadium, a music concert without any fuss I don't see why one would want to be treated differently at the workplace. You don't find anyone talking of "giving up personal liberties and freedoms out of unsubstantiated fears based on a few fringe cases is a slippery slope" when trying to enter any of these secured areas do they? I don't see people complaining about feeling insulted while being frisked trying to enter a stadium but the very same people feel insulted while being frisked entering their workplace!

> nor has a security guard actually stopped any terrorist.

Nope. I never claimed that a security guard actually stopped a terrorist. If you read my comment you would understand that I spoke of multi-layered security and that terror threats on those companies are real and not a figment of one's imagination. If those terror threats were not thwarted by agencies do you agree that having security at the gates of an IT enterprise would be a second line of defence? Or is your assertion that until there is a terror attack of significant magnitude one should not care about security?

> Meanwhile, you know who actually has killed Infosys employees? A security guard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN9MenY2dEs

So you say just because of this one incident we remove all security from these companies and let anyone walk in and out?

Maybe better security here: http://time.com/5226892/youtube-headquarters-security-silico... could have prevented 3 employees from getting injured don't you think?

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#312

Post by megablast »

vishaltelangre wrote: post #105

Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. I agree that "we", the people need to…

Why instead? Why not both?

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#313

Post by slavik81 »

craftyguy wrote: post #306
slavik81 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain kinds of waste are more likely to end up being improperly disposed of. When was the last time you saw a cucumber wrapper or steak package blowing in the wind? I bet you see a lot more coffee cups and plastic bottles. When people unwrap groceries, they do so in their home, and it tends to get disposed of properly. It's stuff people use on the go that most frequently becomes litter.

> tends to get disposed of properly What exactly is the 'proper' disposal of plastic? Burying it? Burning it for energy? Recycling a tiny fraction of it and burying/burning the rest?

It depends on the specifics, but I think you covered the main options. Any of them would prevent the harm to wildlife caused by litter.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#314

Post by chillacy »

dingo_bat wrote: post #235
sumedh wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cocaine should made legal too, with all the measures which you listed. If people like something, they will try anything to get it, if its illegal is just goes underground.

I don't understand this logic. We tax alcohol and cigarettes. We ban cocaine. And look at the result: hundreds of millions addicted to smoking, but almost zero usage of cocaine. Looks like a ban is a good way to curtail usage. Which is what we want, right?

> In the United States, the 2006 National Survey on Drug Use and Health reports that 35.3 million Americans aged 12 and older reported having used cocaine.

10% of the population is hardly "almost zero". I'd also question the premise that it's "what we want". On one hand I'm not sure the drug wars (money into the cartels, families broken up by incarceration, the cycle of drugs leading to violence) was worth it. On the other hand I don't like the idea of the government telling people what they can and can't do to themselves. Drugs are largely a victimless crime.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#315

Post by craftyguy »

slavik81 wrote: post #313
craftyguy wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tends to get disposed of properly What exactly is the 'proper' disposal of plastic? Burying it? Burning it for energy? Recycling a tiny fraction of it and burying/burning the rest?

It depends on the specifics, but I think you covered the main options. Any of them would prevent the harm to wildlife caused by litter.

Burning plastics and burying them causes harm to wildlife, if not immediate then in the long term.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#316

Post by ryandrake »

lurquer wrote: post #291
dd36 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing waste that is properly disposed of with waste that is not. The problem is waste that is improperly disposed of and neither of those are solutions to that problem.

That's correct. Indians litter. It's a cultural thing, I guess. Filthiest place on earth. (Don't downvoted me unless you have been to India.) It's sad that the solution is to ban plastic bags and the like... I'm not against the solution. But, the problem is Indians who think nothing of tossing trash out into the street and would be genuinely confused if you suggested they clean up after themselves.

I’m not sure I buy the “it’s cultural” argument. I’ve been to India and to plenty of other places, and there is a littering problem everywhere. It seems to be worse wherever there are lots of people and mediocre rule of law. I don’t think any one culture instinctively litters more than any other.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#317

Post by BRAlNlAC »

dahart wrote: post #310
BRAlNlAC wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the c02 benefits of improved sales cycles or local agriculture vs global conglomerate food producers. Do you have any data to support the notion that there is a net CO2 benefit to localizing agriculture? Considering how impacted agriculture is by locality, That seems vastly less efficient than large scale industrialized agriculture, and would be honestly quite surprising. >Not to mention plastic waste itself being d…

> Do you have any data to support the notion that there is a net CO2 benefit to localizing agriculture? Considering how impacted agriculture is by locality, That seems vastly less efficient than large scale industrialized agriculture, and would be honestly quite surprising. I pointed out that @jdietrich wasn't considering any of the many potential alternatives to wrapping produce in plastic, I didn't claim there's a…

>I don't think c02 emissions represent the sum total of "evironmental impact" as was implied multiple times above.

I completely agree. I'm also very reluctant to believe any report that estimates GHG emissions from industry, because I believe industry has a very real reason to misrepresent themselves in such reports. Whether that industry is growing and delivering tomatoes or LiPo Batteries.

>Conagra doesn't exist for efficiency, they exist to make money.

efficiency = money, i thought that was obvious. I'm a pretty strong believer in the power of markets.

>"Meat that is discarded in retail, industry and the home accounts for 20 percent of the total GHG emissions of meat production"

Not sure the relevance of that bit, how anyone can care about the environment and not be vegetarian is completely beyond me. I cringe everytime I go out to eat seeing how much meat gets tossed.

>Is that what you meant by "considering how impacted agriculture is by locality"?

Yes.

>I'm imagining some change in purchasing behavior

I'd call that fantasy. If we can't get people to drive fuel-efficient cars even with tax incentives, how are we going to get people to give up blueberries and pineapple in fruit salad? Especially considering how bad meat is, and how few are willing to give it up or even let those around them give it up--as being vegetarian for the last decade has taught me (/grandstand) The best thing we could do would be to create GMO versions of crops that need long distance transportation that either don't have the same environmental requirements to grow or are able to be transported without refrigeration, because the market isn't going to change. Regardless, we've got tens of millions living in the Desert South West, I don't foresee them all living on prickly pears.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#318

Post by dahart »

BRAlNlAC wrote: post #317
dahart wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any data to support the notion that there is a net CO2 benefit to localizing agriculture? Considering how impacted agriculture is by locality, That seems vastly less efficient than large scale industrialized agriculture, and would be honestly quite surprising. I pointed out that @jdietrich wasn't considering any of the many potential alternatives to wrapping produce in plastic, I didn't claim there's a…

>I don't think c02 emissions represent the sum total of "evironmental impact" as was implied multiple times above. I completely agree. I'm also very reluctant to believe any report that estimates GHG emissions from industry, because I believe industry has a very real reason to misrepresent themselves in such reports. Whether that industry is growing and delivering tomatoes or LiPo Batteries. >Conagra doesn't exist fo…

> I'm also very reluctant to believe any report that estimates GHG emissions from industry

Same!

> efficiency = money, i thought that was obvious.

We have to be careful here. We've just switched to talking about overall production efficiency now, not the c02 byproduct efficiency that was being referred to. There is no t much of a direct market force to be efficient about c02 byproducts, in fact often the opposite, money and production efficiency is a force against reducing c02 emissions.

> how anyone can care about the environment and not be vegetarian is completely beyond me.

That's a great point. Not to mention Americans just eat too much. We could make huge improvements by eating less.

>> I'm imagining some change in purchasing behavior > I'd call that fantasy.

That's a fair point, for as long as we have these options. A willing change in purchasing behavior might be unrealistic.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#319

Post by retreatguru »

lurquer wrote: post #291
dd36 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing waste that is properly disposed of with waste that is not. The problem is waste that is improperly disposed of and neither of those are solutions to that problem.

That's correct. Indians litter. It's a cultural thing, I guess. Filthiest place on earth. (Don't downvoted me unless you have been to India.) It's sad that the solution is to ban plastic bags and the like... I'm not against the solution. But, the problem is Indians who think nothing of tossing trash out into the street and would be genuinely confused if you suggested they clean up after themselves.

I’ve been to India many times, and it’s true most people there litter without much thought. Once while ‘adapting myself to the culture’ I threw a plastic water bottle away on a street corner that was already heavy with garbage; and just then an elderly Indian man chastised me for littering!

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#320

Post by azinman2 »

jdietrich wrote: post #233
azinman2 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with paper? They’re strong, biodegradable, and can use tree types that can be quickly grown.

Producing a paper bag has environmental impacts equivalent to three lightweight polyethythene bags. For cotton bags, it's about a 130x multiple. The best option is to reuse a thick nonwoven plastic bag until it's worn out; woven plastic or cotton bags are rarely re-used often enough to repay their greater costs of manufacture. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

3x in which dimension(s)?

The paper bag can be easily recycled, will biodegrade, and not cause issues in our ocean.

Clearly people bringing their own reusable bags is best, but we're talking about disposable alternatives here.

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