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Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

theguardian.com

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Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#41

Post by tehwebguy »

simion314 wrote: post #12
alkonaut wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the cost is known. If the consequence is microplastics in the oceans it's probably so high that any number assigned as the cost is equivalent to a ban. You wouldn't buy a $10 plastic bag at the grocery store.

It is like a ban but I think it has the advantage that does not make things illegal so you don't get the "state tells me what to do" people complaining because you explain it is a fair "capitalist/free market" measure. Y0u are right that is hard to measure the exact costs, but we don't measure how much it costs if the bottle lands in water but how much it costs to have the bottle collected and placed in the right pla…

It’s not about the cost

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#42

Post by raverbashing »

simion314 wrote: post #6

A tax seems the fair solution, if it costs X to dispose of a plastic bottle then tax X each bottle, use the money to dispose of the bottle, adjust X if costs change.

A lot of places have a deposit on drink containers. You get 5c/10c/20c (something to that order) added to the price but if you take it back to where you bought it/supermarket/etc your money gets returned

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#43

Post by Tepix »

piyushpr134 wrote: post #33

Great to see that my city, Mumbai, is setting an example here. Plastic ban is a no brainer. People must move to either biodegradable carry bags and packaging or move to jute/steel/metal bags/utensils etc. Plastic would choke our world one day otherwise. At the same time, I know it would be huge pain for a lot of people. In Mumbai, it rains really heavy. Like really really heavy. It rains more than 2x it rains in Lond…

Getting rid of single-use plastic would be a great first step.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#44

Post by WalterBright »

I'm a heavy amazon user, and am disappointed that they haven't eliminated plastic from the packaging. They use those inflatable plastic balloons (which are still far better than styrofoam peanuts), and they inexplicably use plastic bubblewrap mailers.

On the news today they reported the tons of recyclable paper that nobody knows what to do with. It could be shredded and used for packaging instead of plastic.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#45

Post by WalterBright »

andrewstuart wrote: post #25

Thank goodness somewhere is taking the obvious action of banning the packaging, which is really just pre-garbage. However, banning packaging only works if it is backed by a system for precisely standardised, refundable and washable containers that food and other products can be shipped in. You can't just say "no packaging". We need a MUCH better form of packaging than disposable/recyclable because recycling only work…

Better to use paper packaging. For food it can be waxed like in the olden days.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#46

Post by Tepix »

dingaling wrote: post #9
simion314 wrote: post #6

A tax seems the fair solution, if it costs X to dispose of a plastic bottle then tax X each bottle, use the money to dispose of the bottle, adjust X if costs change.

But such a tax gives no incentive for companies to change their packaging. The tax is paid by the customer who usually has few or no options. For example in the UK plastic one-litre milk pitcher bottles are ubiquitous. Even the few remaining door-to-door milkmen deliver them, instead of the old one-pint reusable glass bottles. I simply can't buy fresh milk in anything else and i have a recycling bin full of them. Rev…

You can still buy milk in glass bottles in some stores in Germany, but that milk is more expensive.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#47

Post by detaro »

tallanvor wrote: post #37
DougBTX wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to ask not just which is better, but which is better for who? With glass, producing new bottles for each delivery would be super expensive, so it is in their interest to bear the cost of collecting the bottles for reuse and recycling. With plastic, producing new containers is super cheap, so it is fine to continuously produce new ones, but the waste is still produced, so the customers and their local government…

One problem is that we don't know the full cost, including the environmental impact, of each option. Glass can be cleaned and reused, but it's heavier, so transporting it both ways results in increased emissions. They could also choose to use reusable plastic containers (soda companies did this in Norway up until around 5-6 years ago), but collecting the used containers takes up much more space if they can't be compa…

We could at least get somewhat reasonable estimates I think, there should be enough countries with bottle-collecting schemes to get useful data about actual effort involved.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#48

Post by WalterBright »

DougBTX wrote: post #26
jstanley wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reverting to glass would add weight, breakages and collection costs So how exactly is glass superior to plastic in this application? Seems to me that they moved to plastic because plastic is the better material for the job.

Need to ask not just which is better, but which is better for who? With glass, producing new bottles for each delivery would be super expensive, so it is in their interest to bear the cost of collecting the bottles for reuse and recycling. With plastic, producing new containers is super cheap, so it is fine to continuously produce new ones, but the waste is still produced, so the customers and their local government…

They can move to tin cans like soda cans, which have remarkably little metal in them. No need to wash them, just throw them in the hopper with the rest of the ore.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#49

Post by majewsky »

Honest question: What will plastic bottles be replaced with that's more environmentally friendly? I can easily see plastic bags being replaced by jute bags, but the only alternative material for bottles that I know of is glass, which does not seem like a good alternative given its weight and fragility (and possibly energy use during production).

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#50

Post by matt4077 »

majewsky wrote: post #49

Honest question: What will plastic bottles be replaced with that's more environmentally friendly? I can easily see plastic bags being replaced by jute bags, but the only alternative material for bottles that I know of is glass, which does not seem like a good alternative given its weight and fragility (and possibly energy use during production).

I suspect that only single-use bottles are banned. The sturdier, reusable plastic bottles, with a deposit encouraging returns, should be the best option in terms of energy and material over its lifetime.
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