The Last of the Tiger Parents • Hacker News Board

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#61

Post by e40 » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 5:51 AM UTC

danjayh wrote: post #49

hb3b wrote: post #9

Offtopic but do most HN'ers have NYT subscriptions or use extensions to workaround the paywalls? Anyone else wish they could filter out paywalled links from HN?

Not sure. I'd be surprised if they did. I've run into quite a few people who pay of for WSJ, but not as much NYT. I think maybe it's because WSJ has a tighter paywall + is a little more straight-laced when it comes to journalistic integrity?

The WSJ has higher journalistic integrity? Seems quite the opposite to me. Rupert Murdock owns it, after all.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#62

Post by jancsika » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:07 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #45

FruityFarm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really either/or? Can't parenting utilize both styles?

There is a spectrum, of course. But at the end of the day, you have concrete choices to make. When picking classes for my five year old daughter's summer school, I can check the box for "Disney Princess" dancing or "Little Engineers."

You'd be better off taking such "arbeit vs. spiel" branches and flipping a coin to choose between them.

That way when your daughter is grown she is more likely to have a balanced set of experiences.

Also, at worst you'd become known as "that quirky parent who flips coins to choose between things." Whereas if you keep insisting on activities that sound like they'll increase her later earning potential, you will at worst create a nice size resentment in your daughter as she figures out what you're doing.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#63

Post by gumby » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:20 AM UTC

sand500 wrote: post #2

This is something I sometimes think about. My parents were pretty strict and emphasized education but were not "tiger parent" strict. I did pretty well in school but not "straight-A valedictorian" well. I'm out of college now with a job at the big 5 but I wonder where I would be had I studied harder in school and gotten into a better college. And would I be "happier"?

> I wonder where I would be had I studied harder in school and gotten into a better college

One thing that became abundantly clear from watching my kid go through the college process was that "better" is highly student-dependent. I had a really really great time at university but was happy that my kid didn't even apply there as I think he wouldn't have enjoyed the experience and would not have flourished; in fact he did end up going to a school I could not have handled.

Assuming you enjoy your job at the "big 5", is anything wrong?

(Not to say that it's always useful to reflect on the path not taken once in a while in case it provides insights for the future! But tiger parenting -- as a recipient of it, though my parents tried to tone it down -- is predicated on there being a "way", which ultimately there isn't, at least in the USA).

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#64

Post by dorchadas » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:32 AM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #58

I'm interested in what really qualifies as "Tiger Parenting", especially over whether my childhood counts as tiger parenting: I don't remember elementary school that much. I remember getting my homework done quick because I could play the N64 or Xbox when my homework was done. Maybe that instilled in me the notion that academics come first. I also remember taking math quizzes and being pretty good at them in elementa…

This is pretty much exactly my situation, and comparing it to a kid a year younger than me (and his siblings), as well as a few others I know, I'd say it definitely wasn't tiger parenting.

I worked to get good grades for myself, not because my parents really pushed me to. They certainly encouraged and helped, but that was it. I was very introverted my first few years of high school (did have online friends through games, and friends in real life, but rarely stayed overnight with them, etc) but my parents pushed me to get out of that even. I didn't do much studying, either (bit me in the ass in college tho because I didn't know how to study well lol), and didn't have a bedtime.

Now, my brother wasn't as motivated to do good as I was, even though he could. And my parents didn't push him either. They let him have his friends over every weekend and get Bs and such. I'm really really glad I had that kind of upbringing when comparing it to the other kid who had to have straight As, had over 1000 volunteer hours a year, did Tae Kwan Do and several other extracurriculars (his parents wanted him and siblings to go to Naval Academy;they all did end up going). There were times his life seemed awful, even tho he hung out with friends a lot and had fun... His siblings both had it worse off, and it showed in how they interacted with people (i.e. Grades decided worth, no real social skills, etc etc)

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#65

Post by glangdale » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:56 AM UTC

628C6l0 wrote: post #55

glangdale wrote: post #14

From my experience, Tiger Parenting is a very effective way of propelling people through standardized testing and competitive exams/admissions. I think it tends to stop working once there is not a clearly delineated pathway to achievement - for example in independent research. It's absurd to think that no-one who came up with a Tiger Parent philosophy won't be a good researcher or independently creative, but there do…

I think this is a little unfair. Tiger parenting is never designed to make the child into some kind of Issac Newton figure. Tiger parents want their children to become financially successful - lawyers, doctors, etc. High-skill workers. The fundamental difference between these professions and say the sciences is that you don't have to come up with anything NEW to be successful. As a thought experiment, you can find a…

The place where I observed a lot of tiger parented people running out of nice standardized road was either (a) at the very most preliminary steps towards research (Honours thesis in the British/Australian system or MSc coursework or masters in the US) or (b) having to independently conjure up project ideas in a company (i.e. moving out of junior development roles).

It's not exactly Isaac Newton territory.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#66

Post by glangdale » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 6:57 AM UTC

gsam wrote: post #18

glangdale wrote: post #14

From my experience, Tiger Parenting is a very effective way of propelling people through standardized testing and competitive exams/admissions. I think it tends to stop working once there is not a clearly delineated pathway to achievement - for example in independent research. It's absurd to think that no-one who came up with a Tiger Parent philosophy won't be a good researcher or independently creative, but there do…

As a counterpoint, I would like to say that a lot of research still is 'routine intellectual work'. Movers and shakers are rare and far apart. The vast majority of academia are collectively and slowly boiling over problems, rather than taking bold and independent strives.

It's fairly routine, but by the standards of, say, the LSAT or GRE, it's hardly signposted at all. I kinda understated my point in the original post by not making it clear we're not talking about discoveries of breathtaking originality; more "do your first independent work" at the honors or 'new senior dev' level.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#67

Post by coconut_crab » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 7:01 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #35

> When I became a parent, I felt the wonder and uncertainty that accompany the awesome responsibility of fatherhood. But I was absolutely sure of one thing: The childhood I devise for my two young daughters will look nothing like mine. They will feel valued and supported. They will know home as a place of joy and fun. They will never wonder whether their father’s love is conditioned on an unblemished report card. I w…

> There's also a question of whether it helps anyone else. Our world is facing immense challenges. Many of the things cans we've been kicking down the road for these past decades are going to pile up on the generation to come. Their generation needs people slaving away in labs or in front of computers. That need might be existential. Your kids shouldn't get a pass on that just because they are privileged and their parents were well-off enough that they could be comfortable without necessarily striving.

IMHO that's overfitting, what worked for our parent might or might not work for us. I believe cultivating the right mindset, having the children think for themselves instead of forcing them to follow our footsteps, is the best way to prepare them for the uncertainty of the future.

Disclaimer: I'm Asian, but not in America.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#68

Post by nexus2045 » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 7:25 AM UTC

spyckie2 wrote: post #56

As a second generation Asian American who is living in Hong Kong, this article (and most discussions about tiger parents) sounds like the writer has a blind spot - specifically, he wonders if he will emulate tiger parents without any understanding of the cultural values that cause tiger parents to be that way. In Asian culture, obedience, order, and hierarchy are the values that shape society. Western cultures value…

Well put, I definitely grew up with resentment of my parents ways, especially when all the cool kids around me were partying and having fun and they told me to go home for dinner, and I felt this really hampered my social skills which weren't given enough activation energy to blossom.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#69

Post by eeeuo » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 7:54 AM UTC

glangdale wrote: post #14

From my experience, Tiger Parenting is a very effective way of propelling people through standardized testing and competitive exams/admissions. I think it tends to stop working once there is not a clearly delineated pathway to achievement - for example in independent research. It's absurd to think that no-one who came up with a Tiger Parent philosophy won't be a good researcher or independently creative, but there do…

I disagree that Tiger Parenting produces a higher percentage of children that are uncreative. I've known many "tiger children" that are creative and perfectly content in unfamiliar intellectual environments.

I think Tiger Parenting simply increases the floor. Therefore, many children have artificially inflated marks relative to their true intelligence. When these children are put in an environment in which they are unable to rely on outworking others, they falter. They are not uncreative, they're just not intelligent.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#70

Post by coldtea » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 12:07 PM UTC

glangdale wrote: post #14

From my experience, Tiger Parenting is a very effective way of propelling people through standardized testing and competitive exams/admissions. I think it tends to stop working once there is not a clearly delineated pathway to achievement - for example in independent research. It's absurd to think that no-one who came up with a Tiger Parent philosophy won't be a good researcher or independently creative, but there do…

>From my experience, Tiger Parenting is a very effective way of propelling people through standardized testing and competitive exams/admissions. I think it tends to stop working once there is not a clearly delineated pathway to achievement - for example in independent research.

Or you know, child happiness and personal fulfilment.