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The Last of the Tiger Parents

nytimes.com

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Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#41

Post by imh »

docker_up wrote: post #31

The author has the privilege to not have to raise his child the way he was, because he is very successful and rich. Once you have economic wealth, you reach higher and higher on the Maslov's Hierarchy of Needs. He and his children have the privilege and luxury of pursuing the top echelon, which is self-fulfillment. He doesn't have to force education down his children's throats because they will inherit his and his wi…

> And while many tiger cubs run the gantlet and emerge as academic gladiators, on average, children subjected to high-pressure parenting actually tend to do worse in school.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#42

Post by ken47 »

I was fine with this article until he tried to bring all Asian Americans into it. Surprise surprise, but not all high-performing Asian Americans grew up under the caricature of Asian parenting the author presents throughout the article.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#43

Post by c-smile »

There are alternatives to Tiger Parenting …

I had two friends at school and met exactly same situation visiting their families one day. We were given some homework to do...

Jewish family: Misha, you are so smart, why you cannot solve this exercise?

Russian family (same Tiger style): Vladimir, why you cannot solve this exercise, why you are so lazy?

I do remember that the comparison impressed me - parenthood is an art of creating proper motivations really.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#44

Post by fzeroracer »

docker_up wrote: post #31

The author has the privilege to not have to raise his child the way he was, because he is very successful and rich. Once you have economic wealth, you reach higher and higher on the Maslov's Hierarchy of Needs. He and his children have the privilege and luxury of pursuing the top echelon, which is self-fulfillment. He doesn't have to force education down his children's throats because they will inherit his and his wi…

I vehemently disagree for multiple reasons. I'll address them in order:

The first is that tiger parenting requires a large investment of a parent's time to be successful. For those that are absolutely poor and barely surviving they have little time nor energy to actively participate in their kid's schooling.

The second is the factor of luck which I firmly believe is far more important. My parents were the exact opposite of the parenting style in the OP because they couldn't be. The only reason why I managed to escape the cycle of poverty was due (un)lucky circumstances that allowed me to scrape by and survive through college. Families don't pull themselves out of poverty through adherence to education or work ethic. Not in America at least.

And finally there's also survivorship bias in play. We can say that tiger parenting is successful because of successful people being raised in that environment but we ignore the many people that committed suicide, burned out or otherwise didn't make it as a result of such intense stress. On average those exposed to this style tend to do worse.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#45

Post by rayiner »

FruityFarm wrote: post #37
rayiner wrote: post #35

> When I became a parent, I felt the wonder and uncertainty that accompany the awesome responsibility of fatherhood. But I was absolutely sure of one thing: The childhood I devise for my two young daughters will look nothing like mine. They will feel valued and supported. They will know home as a place of joy and fun. They will never wonder whether their father’s love is conditioned on an unblemished report card. I w…

Is it really either/or? Can't parenting utilize both styles?

There is a spectrum, of course. But at the end of the day, you have concrete choices to make. When picking classes for my five year old daughter's summer school, I can check the box for "Disney Princess" dancing or "Little Engineers."

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#46

Post by Avshalom »

learc83 wrote: post #40
Avshalom wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which part of what you just said makes you feel comfortable arguing against immigrant poverty?

You're gonna need to restate that because I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

you seem to have claimed that people immigrating from Asia move to NYC because it's cheap but at the same time you claim it's cheap because they are willing to live umpteen to a room, vs. literally any other city in the country where it's a fraction of the price per sq ft.

I am claiming that if one of the most populous cities in the country/world sees a high degree of poverty in a demographic it might be because that demographic has a high degree of poverty.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#47

Post by csa »

gsam wrote: post #18
glangdale wrote: post #14

From my experience, Tiger Parenting is a very effective way of propelling people through standardized testing and competitive exams/admissions. I think it tends to stop working once there is not a clearly delineated pathway to achievement - for example in independent research. It's absurd to think that no-one who came up with a Tiger Parent philosophy won't be a good researcher or independently creative, but there do…

As a counterpoint, I would like to say that a lot of research still is 'routine intellectual work'. Movers and shakers are rare and far apart. The vast majority of academia are collectively and slowly boiling over problems, rather than taking bold and independent strives.

> As a counterpoint, I would like to say that a lot of research still is 'routine intellectual work'. Movers and shakers are rare and far apart.

While this is very true, the "movers and shakers" are the ones who set the standard of a research culture. Frankly, that's why the US has a major research advantage over most (probably all) countries that strongly embrace tiger parenting.

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#48

Post by pvg »

rayiner wrote: post #45
FruityFarm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really either/or? Can't parenting utilize both styles?

There is a spectrum, of course. But at the end of the day, you have concrete choices to make. When picking classes for my five year old daughter's summer school, I can check the box for "Disney Princess" dancing or "Little Engineers."

Out of curiosity, which one do you think your daughter would pick?

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#49

Post by danjayh »

hb3b wrote: post #9

Offtopic but do most HN'ers have NYT subscriptions or use extensions to workaround the paywalls? Anyone else wish they could filter out paywalled links from HN?

Not sure. I'd be surprised if they did. I've run into quite a few people who pay of for WSJ, but not as much NYT. I think maybe it's because WSJ has a tighter paywall + is a little more straight-laced when it comes to journalistic integrity?

Re: The Last of the Tiger Parents

#50

Post by learc83 »

Avshalom wrote: post #46
learc83 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're gonna need to restate that because I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

you seem to have claimed that people immigrating from Asia move to NYC because it's cheap but at the same time you claim it's cheap because they are willing to live umpteen to a room, vs. literally any other city in the country where it's a fraction of the price per sq ft. I am claiming that if one of the most populous cities in the country/world sees a high degree of poverty in a demographic it might be because that…

No. I'm saying they move there because of the existing communities in place, and they live in cramped condtions in order to afford it.

>I am claiming that if one of the most populous cities in the country/world sees a high degree of poverty in a demographic it might be because that demographic has a high degree of poverty.

You could actually look at the overall numbers though instead of extrapolating from a non-random sample.

You'd find that Asian Americans are less likely to live in poverty than than any other minority group, and even less likely than the general population.

Clearly NYC is an anomaly. That anomaly is caused by disproportionately large number of poor Asian immigrants.

The only thing this demonstrates is that people from Asian countries poorer than the US disproportionately move to NYC. It isn't in any way useful in a discussion on Asian parenting methods or the benefits of education.

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